Trusting the Journey w/ Ann Eileen Thompson
Episode Details
Transcript
Ann Eileen Thompson, a faith-driven career and leadership coach, author, and speaker, shares her incredible journey of trusting in uninhibited faith. From her early days at Macy's and a successful corporate career at Procter & Gamble, Ann reveals how she learned to embrace her entrepreneurial spirit and a "something extra" that led her to co-found The Garage Group. She delves into the pivotal moments that taught her to release control and how a seemingly simple Bible study reshaped her perspective on work and identity. Ann's story is a powerful testament to the idea that our careers are not just jobs but divine assignments, and true leadership often requires letting go to receive what's next.
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Credits: Host: Lisa Nichols, Executive Producer: Jenny Heal, Marketing Support: Landon Burke and Joe Szynkowski, Podcast Engineer: Portside Media
Lisa Nichols
Chromosomes. Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions that tell us who we are at birth. Most people are born with forty six chromosomes, but each year in the United States, about six thousand people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a person with Down syndrome. Lisa Nichols
If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet. They truly have something extra. My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ally. Ally has something extra in every sense of the word. I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she meets. Lisa Nichols
Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the world. While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that defines who you are. Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference in their companies, their families, their communities, and in themselves. Lisa Nichols
If you like this episode today, please go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a five star rating. Lisa Nichols
Before we get started, I'm excited to share that my book Something Extra launches on September thirtieth, and you can pre order it today. It is rooted in the remarkable spirit of our daughter, Ally, and the heartfelt conversations we've had on the podcast. You'll find wisdom and practical tools to ignite the leader within you and uncover your own something extra. Visit something extra book dot com to order your copy today. Lisa Nichols
I'm delighted to have Anne Eileen Thompson on the show today. Anne is a faith driven career and leadership coach, author, and speaker. Welcome to the Something Extra podcast, Anne, Eileen Thompson. I am so thrilled that we can make this work today. Ann Eileen Thompson
I'm just so excited to have this conversation. I feel like when people who share a faith and share leadership get together and there's just always something cool that happens. So I'm looking forward to it and anticipating great stuff out of this conversation. Lisa Nichols
You know what? That's a great way to put it because I'm anticipating that too, and I'm anticipating that our conversation hopefully is gonna help somebody else. And and I know you've got so much wisdom, but I just told you in a sidebar conversation, you and I have lots of common alities and I just figured out your name is Anne Thompson. My maiden name was Thompson. So Amazing. We could be we could be sisters. Who knows? Ann Eileen Thompson
Although the Thompson the Thompson name is one of those names though. It's like Smith, Thompson. You know, there's a couple of them like that that are who knows. But but but we'll but we'll claim it. Let's just claim it. Lisa Nichols
Let's just go ahead. Let's go ahead and claim it. Yes. Well, I always love to, tell my guest where I meet my guest. You know? I mean, I love my listeners where I meet my guest, and people are like, how do you even meet all these people? And so, you know, let's just go ahead and embarrass him. Okay. Can we just embarrass Jim Bechtold? Ann Eileen Thompson
Yes. Let's do it. Lisa Nichols
Because Jim Bechtold, connected us and said the two of you need to know each other. And it's so funny. And we'll talk about your podcast, but you have a podcast, as well. And and I was looking and do you know how many of your guests have been my guest? Ann Eileen Thompson
How many? Have there been that much? Lisa Nichols
A lot. A lot. Sonya Jackson, Miles, Catherine Gates, Joe Saxton, Mark Whitaker, Jordan Rayner, Dennis Bossadore, Emily Chang, Corey Causa. All of those have been my guests too. So I'm wondering though if Jim Bechtold was the common denominator. Ann Eileen Thompson
Well, he did connect me to a lot of those folks, and there were some of them that I knew through through other connections too. But I bet, you know, if you we went on to LinkedIn and looked at all the connections between all three of us or something, it would be that man has so many connections. I know. And his gift to connect the dots between people is such a blessing. It's such a a it's it's really indicative of how the kingdom ought to be working. We ought to be connecting with each other and learning from each other. And he just does such a great job of that. Lisa Nichols
Collaborating with one another. Yeah. You know, I always say, you know, when you collaborate, you can create something new. You know, we're creating a new episode today. But, yeah, I just I thank the world, Jim Bechtold, and Jenny, my EA, who you've met. Yeah. And you and Jenny's never met him in person, but I said, I cannot wait till you can meet Jim in person because he is just he's a force. He is a force. Yeah. He is. So I've got so much to talk to you about, and I'm I'm so excited for you to share your wisdom with our listeners. But, let's go back to growing up because I know you grew up in Cincinnati. Ann Eileen Thompson
I did. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. And you even talk about in, like, your keynotes and stuff, like your roots and what your roots in Cincinnati meant to you. So can you, like, unpack that a little bit, for our listeners? Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I I love the Midwest. You and I are both Midwesterners, and there's there's a culture in the Midwest that is, I think, very well aligned to Christian faith. There's a there's a generosity in the Midwest. There's an openness in the Midwest. There's a and and not that the Midwest has the market on all of those characteristics, but I've been enough other places and met people from other places that I recognize that the Midwestern, even the connectivity, we were just talking about Jim and Jim's based here in Cincinnati too. And the openness to making connections and things really has kind of formed a lot of my character, I think. It's hard to say chicken or egg was my character formed by my upbringing or my upbringing. You know, it's hard to say, but I believe that this And frankly, there's some really cool stuff happening in Cincinnati around entrepreneurship and faith and business and faith. And we are a very some people have called Cincinnati the Silicon Valley of the Midwest because there's so much entrepreneurial activity. But I would say what the difference is is that it is very rooted in a spirit of kindness and open handedness and generosity, not to be confused with weakness. Right. Right. It's but there's a powerful collaboration that happens when people are willing to open their hands and open their minds and share ideas. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Yeah. And he's thinking like generosity, right? It's not just when we think of generosity, a lot of times we think of material, you know, resources, that sort of thing. But really it's not that. It's being open with whatever you've been given. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yes. Lisa Nichols
Right? And and so you know, if I've got something here that can help you lift you up, I'm gonna share that. And and sometimes that comes through connections, that comes through, you know, sharing of our talents and, not just our treasures. Right? So Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
I love that. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
I know that you were the first in your family to graduate from college. Ann Eileen Thompson
I was. Lisa Nichols
So tell me about that milestone and how that, you know, really has shaped your drive and your perspective on leadership. The other thing, and you can maybe weave this in here, I also read something where you describe, your early ambition as motivated by desire to build a life of purpose, impact, and success. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so interesting, Lisa, because I can recall as a kid never thinking that there would ever be any other path that I would take other than going to college. And it wasn't necessarily because I had a big dream of this is the specific thing I'm going to do. It was actually rooted in a love of learning. I love to learn. And I remember when I graduated from I went to Ohio State. My degree is in journalism, which is quite interesting because I was never a journalist, but there's a whole story there. But what's interesting is that when I graduated, I thought, you know what I would really like to do is stay in school forever and keep learning. And the great thing is that I think while kind of going through that process, it honestly didn't occur to me very often that I was the first. I was the first, but it wasn't something that I carried. I'm so grateful for that. I'm grateful that I didn't carry a burden of feeling like I have to prove myself to my family. Now I wanted to prove myself to myself. I wanted to make an impact. My mother tells me a story that when I was about seven, I said to her mom, I just wanna impact the world for good. And she didn't tell me that until probably three or four years ago, and I hadn't remembered it. And she said it actually, it was two years ago after my first podcast. She listened to my podcast and she said, Anne, I listened to your podcast, and I just thought she's doing it. And it was such a proud moment. It was such a proud moment of recognizing that the the ambition what it it was never for me. The ambition was always about how can I give away what I've got, which, again, it can only be rooted in kind of what I was brought up believing? Right? So it I didn't carry a burden about it. I carried an excitement about it, a, an anticipation of of being able to give away. And I've always had this this, innate understanding that if I'm holding too tightly to something, I can't ever catch what's next. Oh, then good. Lisa Nichols
Say that again. Ann Eileen Thompson
Goodness. If I'm holding too tightly to something, I can't ever catch what's next. I use the word picture sometimes with folks, Lisa, of saying, you remember those round bouncy balls we used to play with? We used to play four square with on the playground in elementary school. I always always tell people, think about if you're holding four or five of those bouncy balls and somehow you're able to balance them in your arms, and you see that the kid across the playground has something even better that he wants to toss at you. You are not going to be able to catch it unless you're willing to let go of what's in your hands. And and that motivating desire, for my part, has has just been there for so long. Even before I recognized that it was there, I never actually recognized that it wasn't there for everyone. Mhmm. Because I just kind of thought it was, this is how we've all been wired. And but it's I've come to realize it is a it is a somewhat unique positioning. You know, I would rather give away value and wisdom and insight and experience. Not that I don't also want to make a good living. Of course, we all need and want to do that. But this desire, this and I get such a high from seeing when something I've learned has helped someone else. And so Lisa Nichols
learn to bring more. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. So I think I think going to college was just a it was a way to give me the input and the skills and the experience that it would allow me to, you know, continue to contribute. Lisa Nichols
Oh, that is that is good, and I really love that. That's, you know, and I think sometimes I'm I'm going to what you just said. If you're holding too tightly something, you cannot catch what's coming. And I'm gonna I'm gonna, put a thread through it because, someone told me, a spiritual mentor of mine said something to me, like, back in twenty thirteen about your time. And if you have got your time so scheduled that you absolutely have no margin, there's no time. There's no margin for God to even bring something new into your life. And it was a pivotal time for me because I let go of some things that were gobbling up my time to make room for other things. And and I'll just tell you, you're coming, you know, you know, I cofounded the Rooted Sisters in twenty fifteen. That would not have happened. I let go of some things in twenty thirteen. That was keeping my margin, like, zero. I had zero margin. And that may I it could have been a case where I'd been like, yeah, it's a great idea. When I have time, we'll do that. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
And, so, yeah, that's I just feel like that's a really good nugget, for our listeners. Well, you know, you started at Macy's. You started at Macy's. Ann Eileen Thompson
I did. I did. Before it was called Macy's in Cincinnati, it was called something else, but it was Macy's. Yeah. Lisa Nichols
It was Macy's. Since you started there, what, you know, what did those early years and then we're gonna move in because you were at P and G for a long time. You had a wonderful careers. But, you know, what did those early roles teach you when you were at Macy's? Ann Eileen Thompson
You know? Yeah. So Macy's was a really interesting role for me. And when we talk proctor, I'll clarify. I wasn't in the executive suite. I was I was an executive, but not in the executive Lisa Nichols
suite. Ann Eileen Thompson
Okay. But, anyway, the the years at Macy's were quite interesting, Lisa, because I will tell you, I had never heard the word entrepreneur before. And I I didn't I didn't hear it at Macy's. I didn't hear it until a couple of years later. But my my favorite story from my Macy's days, I was the sale I was a sales manager of the lingerie department at the Kenwood Town Center, which is the the busiest, most high volume store in the in the region. And when I came into the department, it was, like, forty two percent to sales goal or something, and I needed to get it to a hundred percent of sales goal in order to get any kind of salary increase. And I made terrible money. This was back in the early nineties, so everybody made terrible money compared to today, I guess. But I wanted to succeed. I wanted to hit this goal. I wanted to get a salary increase. And so I thought in my twenty three year old mind, well, I need to pay attention to what's happening outside of this store. And that was about the time that Victoria's Secret was launching. Right? And my lingerie department at Macy's was a bunch of brown and white, like, bras in a box. Do you remember those? Yes. Do you remember the bras in a box? And and, you know, Victoria's Secret had these beautiful colorful bras and lace and all this cool stuff. And and so I thought, well, how am I gonna convince my buyer to give me some new merchandise? So I went on this mission to see all of what all the other stores had, and then I did this analysis of every single product I sold on my floor. Every single one. This was before the days when we had chat GPT to do stuff like this. I mean, it was very manual effort. Yes. And I put together a report, and I called the buyer. I don't even know in hindsight how I got the buyer's phone number or information because it wasn't You Lisa Nichols
were very resourceful, Anne. Ann Eileen Thompson
I was very resourceful. And the buyer was thrilled. I I made an argument for why I needed these types of styles, not those types of styles. She was thrilled. She was thrilled. And so the next day when my boss called me into her office, I thought, surely, I was gonna get some kudos. I did not get kudos. What I got instead was a scolding, oh, no, that it wasn't my job to call the buyer, and how dare I have done that. And there was something in me, Lisa, that I am sure in hindsight, I'm sure it was the holy spirit. That said, this is not the place for you. You've learned what you needed to learn here, and it's time to move on. And back then, if you knew someone who knew someone, you could figure out how to get yourself an interview at Procter and Gamble. Yeah. So I did. I was very resourceful as a young woman, and I knew someone who knew someone who worked for Procter. And I worked my way into a conversation there and had the interview with Procter. And, again, still when I joined Proctor, didn't know the word entrepreneurial. But now when I look back on that experience at Macy's, what I can see is that God was shaping me and telling me who I was and how he had designed me even back then, even when I didn't have words for it, even when I didn't understand. And this this career that started in retail, a journalism major working in retail, then moves to consumer and market knowledge at Proctor where I was studying why people did what they did and how they made their decisions and what they were gonna buy and how much of it they were going to buy and what they thought of different product and brand ideas. So it was a it was a to me, when I look back on it, I'm like, oh, that makes sense. But a lot of people would look at that career shift and go, what happened there? But I see the through line Mhmm. That started with this instinct that God had given me, which is a very entrepreneurial instinct. Lisa Nichols
That's awesome. Well, in most I mean, I'm thinking about most organizations, truly. I mean, you don't wanna be, you don't really be rogue about it, but entrepreneurial Yes. Is usually celebrated. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yes. Lisa Nichols
You want people to think and go, hey. If we did this and come up with new ideas and things like that. So, you know, that was that was wise of you at that point, though, to be a young professional to say, this is this is against kind of how I'm this is this is against kind of how I'm wired. And this is not the place for me. So I'm sure when you went to Proctor, I'm sure that entrepreneurial those skills were more celebrated. You know? Ann Eileen Thompson
It they certainly were. Lisa Nichols
Innovation. And Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. It wasn't called that back then. Mhmm. Even Procter, it wasn't called that, but I was rewarded for it. I I would tell people often, I'm gonna fly under the radar and get things done and and do things that other people might see as risky in terms of ideas that I might put forward or things that I might support or drive for. And I had a couple of moments where I thought I might get fired today because of this crazy thing I'm doing. But I never did. I never did because I think the company understood the value of people who were willing to push the edges. Lisa Nichols
Oh, for sure. Yeah. And and and, clearly, they didn't understand that because you climbed the corporate ladder and where you were I did. Not in the c suite, but you were running global teams. You were Ann Eileen Thompson
I was running yeah. By the time I left, I was running a global team that was responsible for all of the sales forecasting and marketing media optimizations, all this optimization of the spending, at the time. And so, yeah, I you know what? I loved Proctor. I loved my time there. I loved the growth opportunities, the incredible leaders that I met that to this day are are have formed my network. Mhmm. Amazing people. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. I mean, we could probably do a whole we could do a whole segment on Proctor because I know I remember telling Jim, I can't tell you how many leaders that I have known over the years that started at Procter. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
And I'm like, what in the world? What is in the water at Procter and Gamble? You know? And I remember Jim telling me it's like one of the leadership development, you know, machines out there. I mean, just they do such great great work. Well, let me ask you this. I'm gonna ask you this question. This get get in your faith a little bit, but you've shared that a women's bible study at P and G shifted your view of work. Yep. So can you tell me a little bit about that story? Ann Eileen Thompson
I will. And this is this will connect even another dot. So I was probably about three years into my career at Procter and Gamble when a friend of mine, who is now in the c suite at Procter, who was friends with Vivian Bechtold, Jim's wife, and Vivian was starting a women's bible study at Procter. They were gonna do experiencing God, Henry Blackaby. Lisa Nichols
Love it. Ann Eileen Thompson
I had grown up Catholic, but had been in a season of saying I'm not I'm I'm not I just don't feel like I'm learning enough. I want to be learning in some other ways. And there's and now I can look back and appreciate so much about the Catholic faith and the Catholic traditions, and I needed to learn outside of that construct. Right? And so Vivian invited me into this bible study, and I'll tell you, I remember the first time sitting there with these other women, all of whom outranked me, except for one. But most of them way outranked me. And seeing them and hearing them talk about Jesus in an office felt a little weird to me at the fir at first. But the more they talked about it, the more I felt kept thinking, wait a minute. God really cares about my career? God designed me for a career, and that's when some of the dots started to connect. Wait a minute. Maybe that the problem I had at Macy's, the reason I just couldn't stay there, maybe the reason I love what I love and it's different than what I see other people loving, maybe that's actually God's design. And it really was the genesis of me understanding that God wants to be in my career, that he Yes. Has a plan and it's a good plan. It's not always gonna be linear. It's not always gonna be perfectly always up into the right, but he has a plan for my career, and he wants to be involved in the details of my day to day. I started praying before meetings. I started praying for the people that I worked with. And really quickly, what started to happen was I started to grow as a leader, and I don't think that's a coincidence. I don't think it's just because I was wired as a great leader. I think I was wired that way by God, but I really believe the more that I put my trust in him, the more that he trusted me and the more responsibility he gave me and the more space he gave me to lead and to try new things and to experiment and to contribute. And and that one bible study, one person's invitation, I think so often about that, how powerful that one invitation can be. Lisa Nichols
Aren't you glad, Anne, that Vivian saw you and and made that invitation? You know? Because she could've sit back and said, oh, I'm not sure if this would really resonate with Anne or not. But, you know, that's a great lesson in and of itself, you know, just being led. Well, I'm gonna ask you one more question. And then we do need to take a quick break, and then we'll jump right back in. Ann Eileen Thompson
Okay. In Lisa Nichols
the second half here, and then we'll a guy got a lot more to talk to you about. There's so much to you, Anne. There's so much to you. Let let's talk about this. So in twenty eleven, you cofounded the Garage Group Yes. And grew it for nearly a decade. So tell me a little bit about the Garage Group. What was the Garage Group? What was the vision? What were you Yep. Hoping to accomplish? Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. So the Garage Group was was a very much a culmination of this insight about gosh. I'm actually a pretty entrepreneurial person, and I had worked and operated in a large corporation. Now with the backstory is that four years prior to that, I had left Proctor only because the Lord told me to because I sure as heck didn't want to. I loved what I was doing, but the Lord really prompted me, and I had learned how to listen to him, and I was practicing trusting him. And so I left. I had gone to a small company. That small company was very entrepreneurial. It's when I actually really just really recognized and discovered that that thing in me that was innovative and a little risk taking and always willing to push the envelope was called called entrepreneurship. And so I got a chance to practice that and see what it was like to live life in a small company and learn about running a small company. And then a business partner and I started the Garage Group, and our mission was to enable people in corporate environments to operate like entrepreneurs and enable those corporations to embrace that. Lisa Nichols
To support them. Mhmm. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. And this was Oh, that's great. Before, you know, the the all the Eric Reese and all those guys and all the books were written about that. We were a little bit ahead of our time on it, but we had such a blast teaching and equipping through a lot of innovation work. We did mostly innovation work with those companies. So our clients were folks like American Express and Nike and Kellogg's and Kraft, and, of course, Procter and Gamble was a client of ours. And it it was just so much fun. They still are doing that work. The company is still going strong and, led by a couple of amazing women that I just admire and respect so deeply. And so it's it that was quite a a fun and energizing and exciting chapter. Yes. Ultimately, I went kind of up a up a hill of, like, just amazing stuff and then hit a place of burnout. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Ann Eileen Thompson
And then that led me into a whole other season. So Lisa Nichols
I know. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yet yet more transitions. Lisa Nichols
Yes. And you are you are you that's what you help people with now is Ann Eileen Thompson
Yes. Lisa Nichols
Transitions. And we're gonna talk about that. But we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back with Anne Eileen Thompson on the Something Extra podcast. AD
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Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with my friend, Anne Eileen Thompson. So, Anne, we were just talking about the Garage Group, and I know that you stepped back, hired a c I CEO. You guys sold. But in twenty twenty one, you took a career break. Ann Eileen Thompson
I did. Lisa Nichols
A break. Why was this pause so important? Ann Eileen Thompson
You know, in hindsight, Lisa, that pause was was an act of trust. And the truth is I had had such a great and a slightly wild ride at the Garage Group. You know, we hit the Inc five hundred list a couple times. And if you actually think about what the Inc five hundred list is saying, it's saying you're the one of the fastest growing companies, which sounds really good on paper until you actually think about what's the impact of the team to be the fastest growing company for several years running. And the truth is we were running really hard and really fast. And I I hit a wall, to be to be quite honest. I hit a wall, and I knew that I needed to untangle myself from that business. And I will also say that when when I said I would take a break, I really thought it would be three months max because I really believed what I'm wired to work. It is part of who I am. I have to do it. Mhmm. And the reality is once I started actually going and spending some time with the lord during that season because I knew I wanted to spend some time with him. But I'll tell you, I had a I had a strategy, you know, because us type a's always had a strategy. Lisa Nichols
Of course you did. Ann Eileen Thompson
And my strategy was, hey, Lord. Here's the list of ten things that I could do with the rest of my life. So you why don't you just tell me which one I should do? And I'll sit with you. And what I was really saying was I'll logic my way through this. And then I basically said to him, I made a little deal with him. Give me the chills. Give me the tingles when I hit the one that you think I should do. And he was dead silent. He was dead silent. And so I got towards the end of that three months, and I thought, well, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? Because I don't wanna do something that's outside god's will. I don't wanna do something that he doesn't want me to do, but he hasn't answered me yet. And it was in that quiet that I finally heard him say to me, hey, girl. What brings you joy? And I was like, man, I can't answer that question. I don't know. I know what makes me happy. I know how to make money. I know how to lead well. I I know all those things, but I don't know what brings me joy. Joy is such a high bar. That's like being content no matter what is going on. That's being rooted. Right? It's being so rooted and so content that Yes. That you can get through anything. And that began an exploration that took me another twelve months. Took me another twelve months. And during that time, he so wooed me and willed me into remembering the desires of my heart that he had planted in me as a child to make impact on the world. Lisa Nichols
Good impact. Ann Eileen Thompson
To write. I I loved to write when I was a kid. I loved to express myself creatively when I was a kid. And and the more I got into that and realized, hey. Here's how I designed you. If you will trust me in my design and do what I designed you to do, you're gonna have the impact that I also wired in your heart, the desire to have. But it took a lot of letting go. That means I'm I'm not chasing any five hundred list. I'm not chasing a c I o CEO title. I'm chasing the fruits of the spirit. I'm chasing love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness and gentleness and all those things. Right? And so that sabbatical, I call it, led me to a place where I would say what I I call in the book that I've just written a book about all these career transitions, but I call it the, the the the alignment the alignment. Right? I'm fully aligned. This is my confident stride. This season I'm in now because this is the place where I'm fully aligned with where god wants me, and it took a lot of twists and turns on my career to get me there. And I would not have gotten there if I didn't take a break. Because when we don't slow down, we can't hear him. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. That's gosh. I mean and I'm just thinking there's so much packed into what you just said. So that you kinda were telling God, okay. I'm gonna take this three months, and then you tell me. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yes. Oh, yeah. Lisa Nichols
And then by three months, he had not quite answered you because he had not done what he needed to do in you in your heart. Right? There was still some more preparation to be done in Anne's heart. Right? Yeah. So don't be I mean, I the waiting piece is so hard for everyone. Right? But I'm always, like, don't despise the waiting. Yes. And just because you think nothing's happening, doesn't mean that it's not happening. Right? He's still working even if you don't see it at that time. And there was preparation and things in your heart that needed to to get to that where you can be in the season and realize, gosh, here are the things that bring you joy. I just I there's just so much packed in there. And I love, you know you said, oh, you know, you love the writing. Well, of course, you love writing. You were a journalism major. Right. Right. Right? So getting back to that, and now you've got your book. Gosh. There's so much. Well, I mean and, you know, I know that, like, today, you're coaching leaders in how to integrate their faith into their work. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yep. Lisa Nichols
And that is I hear that a lot, and I think that there's a lot of movement there. Right? And you'd said something like that with the the bible study that Vivian had, invited you into, you're sitting there going, god cares about my work. Here's the reality. God cares about everything. He cares about every single detail. And in fact, if you think that the scripture doesn't talk about that, it does. In Colossians, it says, work as unto the Lord. Right? Work. I mean, he wants our work, you know, he wants to be a part of that as much as any other part of our life. So I but I think this is a challenge for a lot of people, and I think a lot of people compartmentalize. Right? It's like, Okay, here's my work, Okay? And then here's my faith over here in this bucket. And to me, I mean, I'm not being true to myself if the two are not integrated. So you know, what, you know, what have you seen? What are some of those challenges? Why do you think this is that that people find this so challenging? Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. Lisa, it's I think it's very complex, and I think it's there are probably different reasons for each person in terms of what holds them back. But but some of the big themes, I think, are really probably center around our identity. Because when so many of us, we we don't realize how much our identity is tied to our work until we have to step away from it. And when we do, we have to untangle that. Lisa Nichols
Right? Ann Eileen Thompson
And and and the my identity as a CEO or as a leader or as a customer service representative or as a whatever you are is so strong that we almost feel like, well, that's my part of my life to lead, and I'll go to church on Sunday. It's we just don't our identity is so wrapped up in that. When we start to understand that who we are, our identity is actually rooted in the Lord, then we start to not be able to escape the reality that our work and our life and our faith ought to be fully integrated. Mhmm. Right? And so I think most often, it's coming from a an identity issue. And then the second big reason I think people don't do it is fear. There's so much Lisa Nichols
Yeah. I agree with that. Ann Eileen Thompson
And and fear around, well, if I express my faith, people aren't gonna like me. And and, again, this actually ties back to identity because if people don't like me, well, what does that mean? It it means something for my identity versus it's okay if people don't like me. Some some people aren't gonna like you. Right. It's okay. Right? Yeah. And so I I really believe that, you know, the Lord so longs, not just to be in the details of our career, but he longs for us to recognize that he's using our work, he's using our careers to form us, to shape us, to mold us, to actually help us see ourselves the way he sees us. Mhmm. And and I I I long for more people to see that. I long for more people to recognize that their career and their work can be aligned with how God designed us to be. Mhmm. And for some people, that's going to look very different than what they originally thought their career ambition was. Some people think I need to get to the top. But if you look at scripture and you understand the you know, when scripture and and talks about the the the body, some people are a nose, some people are an arm, some people are a toe, somebody is the heart, somebody is the brain, somebody is the, you know, the blood, somebody's skin. Like, okay. If we're all different, we can't all be at the top of every company. That's right. It it wouldn't work, and the kingdom doesn't work that way either. But we get really confused about that, and we put our ambition ahead of that, which is entirely driven by what we want our identity to be, which is usually driven by some kind of fear. I I don't wanna not be enough. I need to be seen as this or that this. I need to be seen as accomplished. I need to be seen as well spoken. I need to be seen as whatever it is that we think is so important. That's why it's interesting when you ask me about going to college. I'm so grateful that I never felt that burden. Had I felt the burden of you're the first person in your family to do this, that would have been probably conflicted and somehow messed with my identity. Yeah. But I'm grateful that it didn't. Right. School wasn't a way for me to prove who I was. It was just part of the journey that the Lord had me on. Lisa Nichols
So Your job, Ann Eileen Thompson
you know, your job isn't who you are. It's just part of the journey that God has you on. Lisa Nichols
Right. Yeah. And as you know, as you know, and I've got a book that's Yes. Ann Eileen Thompson
You know, Lisa Nichols
that's on preorder right now. And, you know, the first part of my it's divided into four parts, and the first part is really about it starts on the inside. And identity is a big piece of that. Because here's the thing, titles change. Positions change. So when that's stripped away, who are you? You're not that title. You're not that that's a role that you play. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yes. Yes. Lisa Nichols
It's a role that you play. But it's not who you are, and it should you shouldn't have your identity tied to that. And I've got, goodness gracious, so many stories about that. Well, gosh, I've got so much more to talk about, but I know we're running out of time here. I do want our listeners to know that you host the the Faith Driven Leader podcast. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yes. Lisa Nichols
Have there been I know you're like me. You love people, and you love learning from people. Right? And we said that at the very beginning. You're like, I love to learn. So So do I. That's one of my values, is growth. But, you know, has there been a really inspiring or surprising conversation that you've had on your show? Can you think of one or two? And I get asked this question a lot, you know, and I've had almost three hundred and fifty liters, and I'm like, I love every one of them. Every one of them is my favorite, you know. But has there been one that's really stood out to you, Anne? Or when you got off of there, you just felt like, oh, I just had a therapy session with that therapist? Ann Eileen Thompson
There have been several like that. There have been several that were so inspiring and so moving. Probably one of the ones I really enjoyed the most, I interviewed doctor Kevin Brown. He's the, the president of Asbury University. So, you know, Asbury was where that big revival happened to be. Lisa Nichols
Revival. Right. Yes. I remember that. Ann Eileen Thompson
And, and I interviewed him about a year after that. And and we talked so much about what was the role of leadership in a situation like that. Because my husband and I went to Asbury twice during the revival, and we got a chance to witness how the leaders were responding. That was entirely holy spirit driven, and and if you weren't there, you probably would not believe it. You you probably wouldn't understand what really was happening there, but the move of the spirit was so strong. And what you saw were leaders and administrators taking out the trash, helping people find places to sit, helping to make sure that food was distributed or water was distributed or the sound was working or whatever needed to be happening because the spirit was moving through the students. And the conversation with Kevin was so inspiring because I will tell you he is probably one of the most intelligent people I've met. But, also, I would I would characterize him as beautifully meek. Lisa Nichols
Okay. Ann Eileen Thompson
There there's probably a future book A book it's probably a future book coming for me about meekness. But because I believe that meekness is is really truly the most underappreciated leadership superpower. Kevin doctor Brown could have taken over, set here's the strategy. Here's how we're gonna handle this. Here's where these students will go. Here's how this is gonna work, and he didn't. He didn't. He knew that God was in control. The spirit was in control, and he yielded to the spirit. And it was a beautiful, beautiful picture of leadership. And I just walked away from that inspired not only by his leadership, but also just fired up for this generation that's coming up. Yes. I'm so excited about them and and all the things that are happening there. So I really loved that conversation. Lisa Nichols
That's great. Ann Eileen Thompson
And so many more. I could probably tell you stories just like you could of I know. Folks that you've talked to that have just made an impact on your life. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. For sure. For sure. Well, I'll I will go back and listen to that one. I'll go back and listen to all of them, but for sure. And so, listeners, please check out the podcast, Faith Driven Leader. And then also be on the lookout for Anne's book that's coming out this call called Faith at Work. You know, and and I'm excited. I'm sure that you're gonna talk a little bit about some of the things that we've talked about today. But, Anne, I wanna ask you, this is called something extra. What do you believe is the something extra that every leader needs? Ann Eileen Thompson
It's such a great question, Lisa. I've been reflecting on this the past couple of days, and and and the thing that the spirit keeps bringing me back to is what I would call uninhibited trust. Uninhibited trust. I think a lot of us say, I trust the Lord, but we have inhibitions. We have we trust, but we also have this logic. Right? And and I I really believe the Lord has me in this season right now of recognizing that our careers can be a way that he brings us into alignment with who he created us to be. And in order for him to do that work, we have to trust because it is rarely linear. It is rarely what we would predict or project based on if you look at the first five years of your career, can you project where it's going? I'm sure you could, but then you're controlling it, and that's not uninhibited trust. Mhmm. Leaving leaving Proctor leaving Proctor was uninhibited trust. I I I just trusted that the Lord was telling me to do that. Mhmm. Starting the garage group, uninhibited trust. Taking a sabbatical for eighteen months when I thought it would be three, uninhibited trust. At the time, I don't know that I recognized that that's what I was doing, but I'm telling you he rewards it and he honors it. Lisa Nichols
I I could not agree more, but it's not easy. It's not. It's not easy because we want to be in control. Ann Eileen Thompson
We do. Lisa Nichols
But Ann Eileen Thompson
We do. You know, the interesting thing, Lalisa, that I will tell you, I've seen in so many people that I've coached and worked with over the years, and I've seen it to be true in my own life and my own career is it does get easier even though the risks get bigger. Because once you've seen how faithful he is in it Mhmm. You start to actually fear the opposite more. Yeah. What if I don't do this thing that he's calling me to do? What will I miss? Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point, Anne. That's a good point. You know, it's like you everybody needs an Ebenezer. Right? You need to say, here, I remember. Yeah. I remember this, this, this, and this. And when you see the faithfulness in this situation, the faithfulness in this sit I mean, yeah. I mean, it I agree. I mean, it gets easier because you see that listen. He's never let me down. And even when we don't understand. Even when we don't understand. Well, this has been so good, and thank you so much, Lisa. It's been fun. I think we could talk for, like, ten hours. Ann Eileen Thompson
I think we could. So fun. Lisa Nichols
Well, thank you for being on the show. And, yeah, I'll I I'm so excited for our listeners to learn from you, Anne. Anne, if you're a listener out there and you need a coach, that's what Anne does. She coaches. She is a keynote speaker. So if you need to book a speaker, if you go to her, why don't you give your URL for your, for your website? And if you need a speaker and want to go and look at her different topics, she's got six or seven different topics that she speaks on. So what is that? Ann Eileen Thompson
It's just ann eileen thompson dot com. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Really hard. Really hard. Ann Eileen Thompson
Yeah. The the other resource, Lisa, that that I wanna offer folks, because I find it's been very helpful and a blessing simple quiz that you can take that helps you understand where might God be taking your career next in order to bring you closer to alignment with who he created you to be. You can get a link to that on the website. Maybe I'll send you guys a link to put on the show notes. I agree. It's a it's a great resource, and it'll it'll give you a really comprehensive report on where you are and some really practical tips for how do you pray in this season. Mhmm. What does it look like to trust in this season? What are some things that you can be doing in order to embrace what God might be doing in your career? Lisa Nichols
That is so good. Yeah. And we didn't have time to get into it, but I know that you talk about there's how many different transitions that people go through. Eight different careers. And, you know, Anne coaches on this and speaks on it. So, yeah, reach out to her. Be on the lookout for her book that's coming out. Jump on the website and, take the assessment and just and and get all the goodness there that she has to offer. So, Anne, thanks again. I appreciate you. And, yeah. Can't wait for our listeners to learn from you. Ann Eileen Thompson
Thank you so much, Lisa. Announcer
Thank you for listening to today's show. Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc two thousand and nineteen. For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit t p I dot co slash podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen.