Well, you know and and we're gonna talk about this, but you've led global teams. I mean, how has that really influenced your leadership style and the way that you, you know, have managed people over the years? I mean, you probably understand a lot of different cultures and

I think that's a great question. In fact, I would say the number one would be listen more. When especially, you know, I learned long time ago. If someone speaks to you with an accent, that means they know one more language than you do, most likely.

Oh, that's good.

So so I learned to respect that. And, obviously, listening comes first. And I would say that number two is, take the high road and be more empathetic with people. And, make sure you're also aware of the cultural awareness and the nuances because every culture has a little different nuances when you the the way you speak to them, the way you interact with them. In some culture, you know, being bold and direct is the best way. Like, point a to point b straight line is the best answer. In some culture, it is a disaster, Yeah. Because, when you start having those type of conversation, people back off. Literally, physically, they back off, and they wanna have that space. And they are wondering why in the world you're being so rude. Well, the culture you're from, it is perfectly normal. So I think you have to have that cultural awareness. So when you learn the language, you're not just learning the language. You're kind of learning the cultural aspect of that individual or that group, by default. You know? When I was in the Middle East while working in the Middle East, I I I was I could understand Arabic, because I was there for quite some time. And, I kinda knew what to say, what not to do, and how I sit in front of other people, how I cross my legs, and, you know, where my feet is pointed and all of that. Those things are really important, and you have to be cognizant of that and make sure that, you know, you're looking at this world from their perspective.

That is so good. That is gold. That is gold there. And I'm thinking as you're you were talking about that, I'm I'm gonna go back to the other trait that you talked about, the curiosity.

Yeah.

And you may say, how how do I do that? Right? Well, be more curious. Be Yeah. You know, try to ask questions of them. Right? And get to know seek to understand, you know, is is kinda what I'm thinking. So that's really that's really, really good

Yeah.

Good advice. So let's kinda move into your career. You've worked at a lot of iconic organizations, Suda. You worked at, I think you worked at enterprise for nine years. Tell me just a little bit, what what one maybe foundational leadership trait did you learn at enterprise that you've carried forward?

Oh my gosh. There's a lot. Quite honestly, it changed everything because, I worked for a guy named Bill Snyder. He was the CIO. And, actually, he believed in me. And he gave me opportunities after opportunities. I mean, I didn't think I had what it took to be successful. I had no idea about certain things that he asked me to do. How do you, become an expert in that? But I was thrown into that mix and thrown into the fire, so to speak. And, that's how he was. And because he trusted me completely, and he knew I was going to struggle through it and come out, successful. I'm I'm practically, I owe my entire success to Bill Snyder, who actually gave me all the the challenging opportunities. He moved me around seven seven times within the organization, gave me all the guidance I needed, and, he mentored me personally and provided all the deep insights and how to get things done in a very complex global organization. And, the the way he, you know, was thinking, the way his thought process was was extremely valuable for me because I'm I'm a point a to point b. Stray line is the best dancer type of person when it comes to execution. But, he taught me a lot of other things that actually goes hand in hand with that, like relationship and being influential and, you know, driving to results and carrying people, with you and all of that. So I learned a lot from, from him through my enterprise days, and I'm extremely thankful for him.

Oh, goodness. I love that so much. And I know you because we've we've talked on the sideline.

Yeah. I

mean, you've mentored Notel in hundreds, and there's people that still are saying, hey. Can I continue to be mentored by you? I'm sure, you know, Suda, you saw what he deposited into you, and I'm sure that that is a big reason why you wanna make sure that you're paying it forward for others. That's really that's really beautiful. Well, I know that you're at Extension Health too, and I think you led one of the largest business transformations in health care. What was that experience like?

I would you know, when it comes to Ascension Health, I think you can forget their mission. It's a mission focused organization based on, you know, saving lives. Right? Yeah. You know, when I say saving lives, it basically means, you know, through an approach that considers patients' spiritual, physical, mental needs. We can pretty much call it as an holistic approach to wellness. Right? Yes. Not a lot of, health care organizations do that. And, obviously, it is a Christ centered ministry. And, it was easy for me to latch on to that, mission and the purpose, what they do, why they do it, and how they do it. I would say the second thing was serving those who are poor and the vulnerable in the in the community where they serve. This is the that that really meant a lot to me because I had, people within my family that they went through a lot of, health care struggles and all of that for years. And, you know, I learned a lot about, you know, the the organization, Ascension Health, and why they do that. You know, it is based on a fundamental principle that started, gosh, you know, for six hundred some years ago when a couple of nuns in Paris and and and, in the in Europe started this organization serving those in the community who did not have any other means for getting, health care or any kind of, help. From from a overall perspective on the the program that I was, privileged to lead along with some of my colleagues, it was a four year long business transmission program. And, ironically, it was, we are two years behind when we all arrived, and we had to catch up on delivering over twenty, I would say, twenty twenty two different highly integrated, set of products, within the remaining two years. So that was probably, one of the the the most, complex undertaking of my career. My peers and our collective teams not only caught up and delivered the entire program in less than two years, but we did that about, I would say at least four months, before that two year deadline came in. Right? It was probably one of the greatest career making projects for all of us who were involved in that transformation journey. But, ultimately, we were able to accomplish this mission impossible, we call it.

Yeah. Mission impossible. On the

the future of Ascension Health. In fact, some of my colleagues, they had this mission impossible, theme on the phone. When the phone rang, it had that, you know, the background music coming from, you know, Mission Impossible movie. It was kinda funny, but, you know, we actually delivered and it was, entirely a, and a team effort across, multiple domains, and we all came through.

That's remarkable. That is remarkable, Suda. What do you think what were the major through lines there? I mean, what was it about that team that you were on that allowed you guys to do that? Because, I mean, it could have been another team and not you know, they could still be two years behind.

Yeah. In fact, we did something different. Now every person that we hired, we told them about what are we trying to do, that this is a mission mission oriented organization, and we have a finite timeline to get this thing done. And we also very we were very transparent with them saying, you know, this is not gonna be a business as usual type of project. It's gonna be long hours working on weekends and all of that. And, of course, you know, we compensated everybody for that. And I think the the the the the organization was smart enough to recognize that there's gonna be a lot of sacrifices people are gonna make. And the question is, how do you actually, you know, compensate for that? Once we actually addressed all of that, everybody that came to work, we had one purpose and mission in in our in our mind, and that is to save lives. Every dollar we, save, that goes towards the the charitable part of the organization. Right? That's serving the poor and the vulnerable in the community. And I don't know, how else to explain other than the fact that we were just focused towards a mission that

One mission.

Personal sense to us, all of us. Yes. One mission.

Mhmm. Yeah. A purpose much bigger than yourself.

Exactly. Yeah.

It's easier to buy into that, right, when you have a mission like that. That is that's amazing. Well, I I wanna spend some time on Deloitte Yeah. Because, you moved into global leadership at Deloitte. How many associates were you overseeing at one time? I know it was, like, in the thousands.

Yeah. I know. At one point in time, I had a dual role of, leading, the product development team for both US and global. At that time, we were close to ten thousand some people. So most half of that was probably just the eco partners and, you know, our vendors. So that's how large the that organization was.

That is a lot of people. That's a lot of people. I I just I I wanna just ask you this. I mean, it was global. You've got that many people.

Mhmm.

What were some of the major tenants, Suda, that you put in place to help you be successful with the because that that is an organization at scale.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you have to understand the overall context for us. Right? And given the sheer size of the organization, I would say we we were probably operating at at least hundred and fifty countries. And and finding common solutions to solve problems was not always easy. Because every country, every geography has a different need, different composition, different tax and regulatory needs and whatnot. So finding a common solution that works for everybody was a big deal. I would say the second thing we have to really pay attention to was the the language barrier, the cultural barrier, barrier, and the geographical, diversification, you know, takes time. And, you know, obviously, not only takes time, but effort and patience that goes along with that too. Right? So really have to understand where people are. And, you know, and collaborating to find the consensus and commonality was nonnegotiable. Because if you go with the posture of, you know what, we are doing this. This is the solution you're gonna get. And, oh, by the way, you have no choice in the matter. That is not gonna work

at all. Damn.

That is not gonna that's a deal breaker. Right? So we have to be very cognizant of, understanding the overall cultural nuances and the the where the people are coming from. You know, especially, you know, for example, you know, if we're having conversation with someone in, let's say, Japan, and we probably need a translator on the call. So you have to make room for that and make sure that everybody understands what we are saying that is not only technically correct, but also from a cultural aspect, it is projected correctly.

Mhmm. That's so good. Yeah. So good. Well, goodness gracious. I've got so many other questions here for you. Lots of questions. But, I mean, let's talk about leadership philosophy. So you have been a leader that has been described as really inspiring trust. You know, what how have you done that personally, Suda?

Yeah. I'm gonna ask, a very simple question. How do you know, when you trust someone in business? I don't I don't know. I I don't think you need to answer that question. But I'm just gonna say the flash news is not the feeling or the sensation you have. Correct? When you trust somebody, what when we say we trust somebody, what we are really saying is three things. You know? One, they are confident to do their job really well. Second, they are very sincere. They don't make up things. And, number three is, are they reliable? Over a period of time, when when we go through the ups and downs of the business Mhmm. Are they reliable? So if you really spend some time on understanding those three components, you know, it's the foundation of trust. Right? I personally focus on creating an inclusive environment where people feel respected and empowered at the same time. Mhmm. I I have the habit of tapping on people's shoulders and, you know, and tapping into their enormous reservoir of of talent and experience and all all that. Right? Because let's face it. We we hire the best people. We go through the extent of hiring the best people. Why not cut them loose and let them do their job and they're hired to do, right, instead of micromanaging. And that that has really worked for me not only at Deloitte but also before that. You know, I've always adopted that principle. I'm I'm a firm believer that there should be no permanent characterization of an individual if they make mistakes. In fact Mhmm. That's personally, that's how I believe people learn and grow and stretch themselves. And, and they become more reliable and competent. And that goes back to what I said earlier about building that trust. So when you do do all those three things correctly, and people want you people want you to be around and, you know, they give you opportunities to stretch yourself and and get promoted and all of that. So good things happen when you when you go through all of that.

Right. Well, I love that, what you talked about really making it a safe place, basically, a safe environment for people to to make mistakes. Right? But innovation, I would say, does not happen unless you're trying things and experimenting in that part of innovation, Suda.

Yeah.

And not everything you do is going to work. Right? So people are going to you know, some things are not gonna work and sometimes people are gonna make mistakes. But I think, creating that environment where people feel safe to try things is really a paramount trait for a leader.

Yeah. If you keep slapping people's hand every time they make mistake, you know, they're gonna actually, regress. They're not gonna move forward because they're gonna be afraid of, the the ramification that comes, you know, for for making mistakes. And I firmly believe that. And if you try five things and fail in four, what happens? And the fifth one is the billion dollar idea that you come up with. Right?

That's right.

So Right. So you have to allow people to make mistakes. And, obviously, we always do the debrief. Right? After you do some, experimentation and things don't work out, then the question is what did you learn from that, what did you do differently, and all of that. And I think most companies kinda have that, process of doing that, you know, formally or informally. And, that's where you actually, you know, observe the thought process that went into the experimentation. You know, what were you looking for? What happened? What is the difference? And by the by the way, are you gonna recommend this to the leadership team moving forward if this was your money you're spending? Right? So and there is a part of that is also entrepreneurial because most of the entrepreneurs that we know, you know, they they mortgage their house to, you know, fund their passion and whatnot. Right? So in the corporate environment, we don't think that way, but we should.

Yes. Yeah. It's entrepreneurial. You want your people to be intrapreneurial. Right? An entrepreneur within the organization. Yeah. I love that. Well, we've got I've got so much more to talk about with you, Suda. But just scores and scores of questions here, but we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back with my friend, Suda Sivrana, on the Something Extra podcast.

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Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with my friend, Suda Suvrna. So, Suda, I wanna ask you a question. So what is one principle that you will never compromise? Because there's always nonnegotiable as a leader. What is one principle that you will never compromise on as a leader?

I I would say the number one would be trust. And, of course, I could use that, you know, word integrity too.

Integrity. Yeah. Right.

But, you know, to me, it's kind of, integrity is part of the trust. Obviously, you cannot earn trust from somebody who, without the integrity part. Right? Mhmm. So once you lose that trust, it is extremely hard, if not impossible, to regain that. So everybody has to understand understand that. You could actually build ten years, twenty years, thirty years of worth of trust, with somebody. You make one mistake. Well, let me put it this way. It's not necessarily mistake. It's, you know, the word I use, it's, knowingly doing something wrong. You know you had a choice, but you made a choice that is not correct. That is not a mistake. Right? So that is in our, in our vernacular, we'll say disobedience. Right?

Yes.

And and and I think that's the most important thing. Once you lose that, it's almost impossible to regain that trust anywhere. So never compromise.

It's it's kind of a you know, it's a crack in your character.

Exactly.

Yeah. Right? If you knowingly know that this is the right thing to do and you choose not to do it. You and I both love Scott Richard.

Yeah.

Scott's a good friend of both of ours. And, Suda, I'll never forget him saying he said, you know, trust is built in drops but lost in buckets.

Exactly.

And I thought that was such a great way to describe it.

I've heard him say that too. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. So, well, let me let me ask you this. If if for a young professional, and I know and we could spend so much time on mentoring because I know mentoring is so important to you. You've been mentored. You've mentored people hundreds probably over your career. But for a young professional that wants to grow into that CIO, that c suite for the technology, see their CIO, CISO, CTO CTO, what advice would you give them?

Well, several things comes to my mind. Let's see if I can go in a sequence. My advice is to continue to build deep technical expertise. And if you're a CIO, CTO, you gotta know that. Right? And things are changing all the time around us. So you gotta figure out a way to stay on top of it. Otherwise, you know remember when I said something about trust, competence, sincerity, and reliability?

Yes.

When you're not competent, it's kinda hard to do your job really, really well. Right? Right. But, you know, I would say equally focus on building the business acumen because, you know, we love the idea of being a technologist and talk techie terms and use the jargon everywhere. But it's really, really important to understand the business, the domain, and and and become an expert in that. The third one, I would say, leadership and communication skills. Those those two go hand in hand. These are really not in any kind of a particular order, but, you know, it's not good enough to be a technologist and just say, I've made it. You know, you gotta have all of those things. And, you know, going back to what I said earlier, being curious is always an important aspect of being a CIO and CTO. And, you know, take on the stretch opportunities and seek out mentors. You You know, look you know, obviously, we kinda know within the organization who who people respect the most. You will re go after them and say, you know what, hey. Would you be able to spend, you know, fifteen minutes, thirty minutes every other week with me and whatnot? I have never come across anybody that said no to me when I asked for that help. And whenever people come out and ask me for help, I have never said no to anybody in my entire career. Obviously Mhmm. You know, when when you since you mentioned CIOs and CTOs, you know, obviously, they will succeed not just because they know the technology, but by aligning it with the business and company strategy and really inspiring their people to actually deliver it. Without that, I don't know how you actually build the credibility within any organization. Right? It's really important to build your network also intentionally within the company or outside the company and start building the obligations, especially with influential leaders before you cash it in later. Right? Because, you know, once you start building that obligation for doing something above and beyond when nobody really asks you to do, you know, people remember that. And then you can cash it on sometime in the in the future. And, for my mentees, one of the things I tell them constantly is have your own board of advisers. Pick three, four, five people that can give you honest, advice on how do you navigate through your career and become successful within the organization or outside the organization because you can do a lot of things outside the organization, being part of the charitable organization and all of that. Right? And, one last thing that comes to my mind is, don't hesitate to acknowledge success and broadcast your own success. Because most of the time, we are very timid. We are shy about, you know, the technologies. We don't care about, you know, getting a pat on the back, but it's actually really important for you and your team to be recognized publicly. And I would say most people don't do that well. So those are the things that comes to my mind.

That's so good. That's so good. And and I agree with you. I mean, in in in human nature sometimes, Suda, we do shy away from that because it feels a little bit of self promotion. But there's a right way and a wrong way to do it, and you've got to let people know what you've contributed, right, and what you've contributed to the organization. Those are, that I I just love everything that you just said. It was so good. Well, let's talk about this. You've worked in AI, blockchain, IoT. There's always something new. Right? AI is really the buzz right now. But is there a technology right now, Suda, that really excites you for the future that you think is gonna be a huge game changer?

Well, hands down, the answer is AI. I know everybody keeps talking about that, and there is a reason for that. You know, it's not you know, when you think about AI, you know, it's not just a stand alone technology. You know? But it is a multiplier that enhances everything you just talked about, the IoT predictive analytics, r p RPA, AI, and all of that. Right? So AI's ability to shift organization from this, reactive that most companies are in to predictive to autonomous decision making. This will actually transform how we work and innovate in the future. I don't think anybody can, take a shortcut on this one or get a pass or

Mhmm.

Pass to this because it is that important.

Yeah. I agree. I love the word that you said. The the word that I keyed in on there, say, was multiplier.

Exactly.

It's gonna be a fourth multiplier. Right? So, we have to be we don't need to be fearful of it. We need to be looking at it and embracing it. You went through the AI executive program at MIT

Yeah.

Which is so cool. Were were there, like, one or two useful learnings that you, took away from that program?

Well, actually, I did that for a couple of reasons. One is I took, AI class when I was going to the computer management, program, and, I just wanted to see how much has changed. So I think that was the curiosity that led me to signing up for this, executive program within MIT. And, one of the things, you know, that I learned not only from the course itself but also from some of the participants, you know, what really matters is when you start looking at the AI, what it can do, you have a tremendous responsibility of making sure that, you know, the data that you're consuming, the infrastructure that you rely on, is is has a, you know, all the the important aspect like data data governance and data quality and ethical frameworks and all of that. Most people, when they start talking about the surface level, they don't really talk about the underneath, you know, of, the the data and infrastructure, how it how the AI makes itself work and all of that and why that it becomes more reliable over a period of time. Those are the things, that, you know, you don't read much in the articles. Right? So it comes from practitioners who have been there and done that and and have struggled through all the ups and downs. And and also the different aspect of that was the responsibility of each leader within an organization. How do you take this head on and deal with, all the, the confusions and all the pushbacks? But yet, at the same time, you you still need to make progress, and you keep driving for the results and all of that. And embrace this before you become completely outdated. Right? Strategies, you know another one is the strategy and vision. And how do you actually enable that in a tree treat AI as a business enabler and not just as, a technology to that embeds into the company's strategy with the clear priorities. Right? But there's, you have to be mindful of the fact that it's improving customer experience, driving, you know, operational excellence or efficiency, or creating new products or revenue streams. These are all need to be a part of this strategy and with this, vision. Otherwise, why would you spend all that techno dollars, on something that's gonna just wither away and just become, you know, another shiny object that you chased. Right? The last one that I learned from that was, you know, the impact of AI on the people and the culture. The biggest shift, will be on the workforce, and I and you and I talked about this before too. Yes. I I would say leaders need to actually prepare and reskill their team and and also, at the same time, foster a culture of experimentation and address concerns about job displacement and be very transparent with people. If you don't do that, then, you know, you're really not doing your job. Right? Those are the

thinking the the planning and the preparation phase for this is very important. Absolutely. Right, Suda? I mean, you can't just, because the reality is there are some jobs that will go away. And, you know, you can't wait until they completely go away to start planning for that. So, that's really good. That's really good. Well, let's I'm gonna ask you this question. So global leadership. I mean, you've led teams across India, Argentina, Colombia, Ukraine. I think you said Deloitte was, what, a hundred and fifty countries, something like that, I think you said. The Philippines. What have you learned about cross cultural leadership? And we've already touched on this a bit because you're you've said you've got to learn about the culture. You've got to make sure you understand the culture. Is there anything else, Suda, that you would say? I mean, communication, obviously, language, culture.

Yeah. I I think when you you know, this is my personal observations. You know, I could be completely, you know, on a tangent here. But the people people look different from the outside. But all of them have basic needs, basic concerns, basic desires with, you know, different goals and objectives and ambition that whatever they may have. Right? I find that more there are more commonalities than differences.

Yes.

Yeah. And, another thing that comes to my mind is, I also learned people like to be treated fairly and and with dignity, compassion, and respect, and all of that. Right? Regardless of what country they're in, where they're coming from, their background, doesn't really matter because the fundamental needs for everybody is, you know, to be treated fairly and with, you know, with dignity and all of that. So Mhmm. I mentioned it to you. That shows my age too. Right? My my entire career spanning about forty years just in IT. I have not come across a single individual who does not like to be recognized, an economist for doing an excellent work. They might shy away. Yeah. They don't want the, public,

the spotlight on the

public recognition, but I have not come across a single person that really hated that. Right? So, personally, I take all the opportunities to celebrate success with everybody and reward and recognize people publicly and all of that. And that's that's part of the cultural aspect that you have to continue to feel to make sure that, you know, you're building a great organization with a great culture where people want to come and work.

Yeah. That's so beautiful. Yeah. I think it's so beautiful. People care about the same things. I mean, we've done I haven't worked globally, but we've done mission trips. And I'm like, wow. I mean, they love their children just like we do. They want a good life to their children. I mean, there are so many. I I love what you said. There's just more commonalities.

Those are all ontological distinctions. Right?

Mhmm. Yeah. For sure. Well, I know you've served on a lot of boards. You've served on a lot of boards. So I'm sure you get asked every week, would you come serve on this board? You know, how do you choose where to give your time and talent? I mean, because I know you have opportunities all the time coming to you. Everybody wants a piece of Suda. How do you how do you make those choices, Suda, for yourself?

Yeah. I I would say and I I'll give you a short answer first. You know, I pretty much enjoy giving back to the community, because being in the US, you know, I I feel not only privileged but completely blessed. So what do I do in return? I give back. So especially if the purpose of their cause is pretty much in alignment with what I really care about. Right? That's the short answer. The long answer would be, it really offers me a great opportunity to give back, not only give back to the community, but also share professional expertise in areas like for me, it is governance, technology, role of AI that can play in the organization I'm serving as a board member. And, also get different perspectives from other board members, who are all equally successful individuals, from different aspects of the, you know, you know, the corporate world. Right? And and what we are really focused on is to make an impact on the organization's mission. And if the mission is aligned with what you really care about, magic happens. Right? And, one other thing, you know, which is kinda side benefit, it also has, benefit more for me personally, like developing leadership and strategic skills, building my professional network, and gaining, like, a better sense of, purpose and fulfillment, because it is you know, you think you've got it all and you've been doing this for a long time. You kinda not sometimes you get the feeling that, you know what? I can do this. But suddenly, you're sitting across, someone who's at a operating at a much different level than you are. Then all you have to do is just shut up and listen and learn. And, you know, for me, it is extremely beneficial for my, you know, career perspective.

For your development?

Yes. My development. Yeah.

I yes. When we were talking about young professionals, that's one thing I would say. Look for a young professionals board that you can serve on. You would be so amazed. The network for sure, but also what you can learn because you may be sitting there as an IT professional, but the person across from you is Maven in marketing. You're gonna you're gonna learn. So, that that I just think serving is I I just think everybody should be serving in some capacity.

They should.

Yeah. Yes. Well okay. So this is a little more personal. You're married to Stephanie, and you've been married for many, many years. You've raised two grown children. Suda, I will I love this about you, and I will never I won't ever forget this, and it made such an impression on me. I remember being at the award ceremony where you were you accepted the super global finalist, St. Louis CIO Orbi award a few years ago. That's a mouthful. And what I remember is in your acceptance speech, how you honored Stephanie, and you gave so much credit back to her. What what do you what's your family? How has your family impacted even your leadership and what you've been able to do in your career?

That's, this is

The loaded question.

Question, but I like that question. You know? It allows me to just, get straight from my heart. And my fine family is my power plant. Okay? You know, obviously, they give me the purpose to wake up in the morning and deal with anything that comes my way. And, you know, at the end of the day, I kinda remember, you know, what whatever I do has a direct impact on my family. So I I I choose to make sure that I make all the good choices and whatnot because not doing so will have a direct consequence on my family. Right? So, they are the source of my inspiration and and and strength, you know, especially Stephanie through all the ups and downs. You know, we've been married for thirty four years. And, you know, as a family unit, I know we are all different. Right? Or my kids Mhmm. Think differently, act differently, and we have different strengths and weaknesses. But we deeply care about each other and love each other no matter, you know, what. You know, that is unconditional love. I learned long time ago, one side does not fit all. So you have to work with each family member to

Children are all different.

Exactly. Yeah. You have to meet where they are. And, business, you know, to me is, you know, the correlation to that business is, you know, business is no different. You treat everyone with dignity, respect, and work, and and and and and work with them in a way, that works for both parties. And and you stay focused on what are you trying to accomplish, what is your mission at hand. And and there is always a give and take, or you never lose sight of what is really important that is in front of you. And and that that's that's what keeps me going. And I learned something from my family, and I applied that to work. And I learned something something from the business and also applied that to my family life now. So it's a it's a two way thing. But, you know, make no mistake. My my wife is my power plant, nuclear power plant, keeps throwing all the energies out.

I love that. I've not ever had anyone say that, but I love that. Yeah. You know? Because we I mean, we've been we've been to dinner with you and Stephanie and just, you know, you know how important our family is to us. And I can't I years ago, our middle daughter because they're all all three of our children are super different, and our grandson is even more different Yeah. Than the than the other three. But I remember Paige saying years ago, she said, you know what? She goes, it takes all of us to make one of us.

Oh, very nice.

And she was gone. I mean, she was maybe twelve.

Wow.

She goes, it takes all of us to make one of us. And what she was really saying is, Suda, you know, that that because we're different, we sharpen one another, and we, you know, help one another be more whole. You know, I think. So so grateful. So grateful for that. Oh goodness. You've got so much here. I want you're a musician. You're an avid cyclist. I mean, tell me just a little bit. I mean, how does what what muse what what parallels have you seen between music and leadership?

Oh, quite a few. In fact, I was fine with the music first. Right? And I'm an like you said, I'm an audiophile. I would call myself as a critical, listener, because I'm I'm looking for all the different aspects of, you know, marveling the the whole singers and the musicians and the the sound engineers and the producers and the technology that goes hand in hand with all of this. You know, it all comes together like a magic. When you listen to a good piece of music, you're kinda like, oh my gosh. This is amazing. So when you actually dissect and go down of each of these, areas, right, it's a discourse. Each of them have their own discourse behind the skill sets and the whatever they're performing. Right? And, each one is different. And they all had different type of skill sets and whatnot. But when they produce some music, when that comes together and when you start listening to that, you can't tell, anything, but you're just enjoying the music. You know, it's the same way I would say in leading a team. I I try to do my best, you know, like the best artist or the best engineers, singers, producers, whatever it is. Right? The takeaway for me is how how can I be like them and create a wow moment for my stakeholders? My you know, that includes my team and my customers and everybody else in that. Right? So it's just like, you know, me listening to enough enough finally, kind of, produced music and and having that, you know, a heartfelt moment. I I would like to replicate that in business by by working with my team and and creating that wow moment for my customers. Mhmm.

Beautiful symphony. Yeah. Exactly. It's made up of many different parts. Right? I love that. Well, okay. I have one more question for you, Suda. This is called something extra.

Okay.

What do you believe is the something extra every leader needs?

I would say be influential with a high dose of empathy. When everything is around is about to change or in some cases changing already. Right? There's a lot of changes happening in our, domain. So we have to anticipate the worst case and the best case scenario and be proactive with our action right now versus just reacting to an unpleasant situation that might come up later. So I would say, you know, be influential with the high dose of empathy because people are going to struggle through all these changes. As leaders, you have the responsibility to make sure that you calm the storm and, you know, let everybody come with you versus dropping bodies off behind.

Yes. That's so good. Suda, I have absolutely loved this conversation with you. Thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate you taking the time to be on the show today, and I know that you're gonna really help our listeners. So thank you for that.

Thank you so much for investing your time and energy in this, and I can't thank you enough for just give allowing me a chance to, speak from my heart.

Yes. Very good.

Thank you for listening to today's show. Something Extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc, two thousand and nineteen. For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit tpi dot co slash podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen.