Overcoming Negativity to Build Positive Teams w/ Jon Gordon
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In our 400th episode, we explore the power of transformational leadership with Jon Gordon, 18x best-selling author and leadership expert. Jon breaks down why optimism is not soft; it is a critical competitive advantage that drives real business results and transforms company culture. Discover actionable daily habits, strategies for replacing anxious thoughts with truth, and how leading from a place of love and personal healing can unlock your team's true potential.
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Credits: Host: Lisa Nichols, Executive Producer: Jenny Heal, Marketing Support: Joe Szynkowski & Dylan Price, Podcast Engineer: Portside Media
Jon Gordon
Optimism and belief. Those are competitive advantages. Like, when you have optimism and you have belief and you transfer that belief to your team, it really is a competitive advantage. We saw we we so often poo poo positivity. We think it's soft. We think it's weak. It's actually the real thing that delivers results. Being positive doesn't mean Pollyanna. It's not about seeing the world through rose colored glasses. It's knowing that you have the power to overcome the thorns. Lisa Nichols
It takes something a little more to lead with impact. I'm Lisa Nichols, author of Something Extra, and this podcast was inspired by our daughter, Allie, whose additional chromosome has shaped how I see people in leadership. Each episode features conversations with inspiring leaders from around the world about what truly defines how they lead and serve others. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please consider leaving a five star review. It helps more people discover the show. And if you'd like to go deeper, my book, Something Extra, is available on Amazon and through other major book retailers. Jon Gordon is a husband, father, and author. His best selling books and talks have inspired millions of readers and audiences around the world. He is the author of the timeless classic, The Energy Bus, The Carpenter, Training Camp, The Power of Positive Leadership, The Power of a Positive Team, and his latest seven commitments of a great team. When he's not running through airports or speaking to businesses, hospitals, or schools, You can find him playing pickleball and taking long walks, which are when he gets most of his ideas. Jon believes in keeping his bio short because his past accomplishments are meaningless. What matters most is that he says something today that will inspire you to take action tomorrow. Ladies and gentlemen, Jon Gordon. Well, Jon Gordon, I cannot even tell you how grateful I am for you coming on the show today. You don't know this, but I've been a fan for a very long time. Jon Gordon
I'm honored. Thank you so much for that. Lisa Nichols
Fan. Thank you. Big fan. I don't kinda tell you the story behind that, but you, you and I I was sitting in the audience, but you just spoke for Garden City Equity for the summit, and it was just horrific. And so shout out to Michael Arrieta for connecting us. I really appreciate him doing that. Yeah. So I have to tell you, you're my four hundredth guest on the show. Jon Gordon
That's amazing. Four hundred guests. Wow. Lisa Nichols
Four hundredth guest. And you and I were talking before, and I did not realize this, but you do you've done a lot with Patrick Colencioni. Jon Gordon
Yep. Lisa Nichols
And Patrick was my three hundredth guest. Ken Blanchard is your mentor. Yeah. He was my two hundredth guest. Jon Gordon
That is wild. That is so wild that Ken was two hundred. He is my mentor. He really showed me the way in this work, made me wanna do this work. When I first started writing and speaking, I reached out to him. He was so supportive. I don't think I'd be doing it if it wasn't for for him. He really had a huge role in my life and such a sweet, amazing, loving, kind man. He showed me what it was like to be a Christian, but also a business leader that you could do both. And then Pat Lencioni, known Pat for years, and we just got together in Franklin just the other day. I went to visit him, and I was there speaking. But I popped over to see him, and we hung out. We talked. We took a walk around Franklin, just Pat and I, just walking around the little little square, seeing the little shops. And we had a couple people stop us, which was really nice to say hello. But I love Pat, and, Pat is someone who just I have the best conversations with. So he was three hundred, and now I'm four hundred. But, Lisa, I'm gonna say, what took you so long to reach out to me? Lisa Nichols
I know. Exactly. Well, I'm sure we gotta figure out five hundred. It's gotta be somehow connected in the change. Jon Gordon
Oh, yeah. It just happens. Gonna be my daughter, Jade Gordon, so you never know. She's speaking now, so you never know. Wow. Lisa Nichols
That is awesome. I wanna hear more about that. That is so, so awesome. Well, let me tell you because I I told you I've been a fan for a very long time. Really good friend of mine, he's a leadership coach, a seven time NCAA tennis champion, Renee Vidal. Long time ago had asked me, have you ever read the energy bus? And I said, no. And he goes, read it, Lisa. You're gonna love it. And I fell in love. I fell in love with it. And I love he Ken Rocha Ford Jon Gordon
Yep. Lisa Nichols
To that book. Right? And, Jon, I love that you dedicated it to your mom. And I know your mom lost her battle with cancer, but, like, the energy bus I mean, listen. You've written thirty three books, eighteen bestsellers. But I would love for you to tell our listeners about the energy buzz because I think that it will encourage them. It wasn't an immediate success. Right? No. I mean Jon Gordon
It wasn't. It wasn't. And, you know, Ken wrote the forward to that. That's a funny story how that happened. I was in San Diego with my family and reached out to him, and it was Father's Day. And he invited us over for Father's Day. And I had written the manuscript. And while I was there, I said, hey, Ken. Would you write the forward to this book? This is before I had a publisher. And he said yes. And I believe it's one of the reasons why the publisher took on the book because he wrote the forward for it. But that book, when it came out, it was not a a huge success. In fact, it was rejected by thirty publishers initially, and then finally found John Wiley and Sons agreed to publish it. So then it comes out, and bookstores wouldn't carry it. So I went on a twenty eight city tour paid for by myself from city to city, sharing the message in the book. And that was a time when there was no social media. You had to get on local TV, local radio, and that was about it. And I went to all these cities trying to get on these local shows and then did these little small events in each city. We had five people in one city, ten people in another, twenty in another. Like, it was crazy. Get back. Didn't know what the future held, but I just knew that I had this vision and mission, and I had to live it and breathe it every day. Knew that I had this book about George who was miserable and negative. He's got this team at work that's in disarray. He has problems at home, and he wakes up Monday morning to a flat tire. And he's just fed up with life. And we say he was really easy to write about because because he was based on me and my own personal struggles with negativity and adversity. And so George meets Joy the bus driver because he has to take the bus to work, and she had a cast of characters teaching the ten rules for the ride of his life that not only help him become a more positive leader, but a better father, a better husband. And it's about getting his team on the bus and moving in the right direction with a shared vision, focus, and purpose. And that book now has sold over, like, three and a half million copies after all those rejections, after all the adversity, after bookstores wouldn't carry it, and now it just continues to reach more and more people. And I think it's because every one of us has to overcome that negativity to define ourselves and our team success and our family success. Like, we all have to go through the battle ourselves to overcome whatever negativity we're facing to ultimately become who we're meant to be. And as I said, George was based on me, and I had to go on that journey from negative to positive as well. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Yeah. And you're you're free to talk about that, Jon, if you want. Like, where did that negativity come from? I mean, we all to your point, we all have to we all have to battle that. Right? And it's the battle starts in our mind. It starts. And it really does in taking you know, in the Bible, and I know you're a Christian. I'm a Christian. The Bible says we have to take every thought captive. Right? Jon Gordon
We have to take every thought captive because if we don't, our negative thoughts will take us captive. And we don't wanna be taken captive by our negative thoughts. And for years, you know, I struggle with that. I often joke, but it's true. I grew up in a Jewish Italian family. A lot of food, a lot of guilt. A lot of wine, a lot of whining. And my dad was a New York City police officer, undercover narcotics. And so he was shot a few times. He wasn't very positive, my dad. A loving man, but one of the most negative guys on the planet. And so I grew up in in many ways with a lot of negativity, a lot of fear, a lot of worry, a lot of doubt. And I really struggled with with my mindset a lot. Perfectionism, always trying to be successful to make it, to work hard, ultimately feeling like a failure when I didn't make it, when I lost my job during the dot com crash. I don't know how I'm gonna pay the bills. I don't know how I'm gonna support my family. And I really came to a to a a breaking point where I I was crumbling. And my wife said, if you don't change, we're over. Because I was blaming her for why I had not lived up to my potential, why I didn't reach my dreams. And and, you know, it was a great wake up call. I I needed change. And after that, I said, alright. I'm gonna try to work on becoming a more positive person. I wanted to stay married was my first goal, to stay married. Lisa Nichols
And and the second goal family intact. Jon Gordon
Yeah. And the second goal was to be better myself, to be a better father, to be a better husband. Mhmm. Like like George and the energy bus, I wanted to be better. And then that turned into a mission to help others get better. Like, it was a quest for my self to get better. Lisa Nichols
Yes. It Jon Gordon
led to a mission to help others get better. And, I'm just proof that anyone that anyone of us and every one of us can change, that we can all face our battles, face our demons, face our past, and we don't have to be who we were. We can literally become a new creation. We can become who God has called us to be, and we can rewire our brain from negative to positive. And we could start having spiritual disciplines and spiritual rituals that help guide us, that help us focus, and help us really connect to God in a in a greater way. And that that's what I did. I literally began walking and practicing gratitude years ago because I read you can't be stressed and thankful at the same time. And as I began taking these walks of gratitude every day, those walks of gratitude turned into walks of prayer. And that's where all the change began. Like, literally on those walks of doing it day in and day out. I took one this morning as well. I took a walk of gratitude and a walk of prayer this morning. I'm still doing it twenty five years later, and it still has guided me and shaped me. And it has lifted up my spirit, nourished my soul, and allows me ultimately to do my best work and to overcome whatever challenges I'm facing. So I'm living proof that you can actually rewire from negative to positive, that you can change your mindset, that you can develop a deeper connection of faith, and that when you do, your life begins to exponentially grow. And that's why I began, you know, writing a year ago, the power of positive habits. It came outa few weeks ago, and I wrote that book because I wanted to share all these different habits over the years of what I was doing and what I was sharing with, you know, millions of people over the last twenty years and what has helped all these people. And I wanted to put in a book that someone could read and go, okay. Ninety three habits. I can do a few of these, and just a few will literally exponentially grow your life and your relationships. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. I don't have that one, but, I told you. Look at this. Oh, I love that. I love that. Yes. I've got, Jon Gordon
I see the one truth there. I love that. Lisa Nichols
I love the one truth, and you've got the one truth, shirt on. Jon Gordon
That I wrote the yeah. Well, the I wore this T shirt just Lisa Nichols
It is wild. Yes. The one truth, carpenter the carpenter, the power of positive leadership. So I'll have to get the power of positive habits. Jon Gordon
I think the carpenters I love the carpenter story when I think back on it. Lisa Nichols
Yes. I love that. Tell tell me the story. Tell me the story. Tell our listeners the story. Jon Gordon
Well, it the way the book began was I was at home. It was during the great recession, and a carpenter came over to my house to build an entertainment center. And it was during a time when I thought people were gonna be struggling with their business. And I said to him, how you doing in the great recession? He said, I'm busier than ever. And I realized it was because he was a craftsman in his work. He wasn't just a carpenter. He craftsman. Other people were slow during that time, but not him. And I realized that if you pursue excellence, if you love what you do, if you serve your customers, and you show that you care, you will grow your business in any economy. And so I wanted to write a book that really shared that and demonstrated that. And that began the, you know, the idea, the inspiration behind it. And then, ultimately, it's about a guy named Michael who's struggling with his business. He's building it with his wife, and and he's jogging. He's out for a jog, and he has he has, like, an episode where he falls and and gets a note, written to him, as he's in a hospital because the note was left at the at the spot where he fell. And it was the carpenter who saw him fell and and really helped him and saved him and called nine one one and so forth, and he wrote a note to him. And so Michael goes and visits the carpenter, one of his worksites to go see him, and they begin this relationship and conversation about the greatest success principles of all. And that book, yeah, is really special. A lot of people say it's my my best book. And it's so funny we're talking about it because I even just recently prayed on it because I thought, you know, this book is not taken off by the energy bus as. The energy bus Mhmm. But I think it's it's a story for these times now more than ever, the carpenter. So just the other day, I said, yeah. I gotta start putting that book out there again because it's a timeless book, and I really want that book to just take off like it deserves because, you know, it's it's such a good story and such great principles on what it means to build a successful business. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. I love I love that. Your books for our listeners, for the two or three people that don't know who you are, Jon. Jon Gordon
I think there are a lot that don't. Lisa Nichols
You know, so many of your books are written kind of like a fable. You know? But, you know, I was thinking about it yesterday, and I was thinking, you know, what I love about that is the greatest leader you and I have ever known is Jesus Christ. Right? And Jesus taught in parables. He did. He taught in parables. He he took ordinary things that people understood day to day, sheep, wine, wineskins, whatever the thing was, seeds, growing agriculture, and then taught from those, taught the principles from those. And so I was thinking about I was thinking, I love it because Jon's done the same thing with his writing. And so Jon Gordon
I've been inspired by the ultimate carpenter. That's for sure. Lisa Nichols
Amen. Amen to that. You know, so I love this and you've already kind of alluded to it that you, you know, really had to change your mindset. It was funny because a lot of people call you Mr. Positive. In fact, Jon, this is funny. I was on the call with the CEO forum member this morning, and I'm like, I'm so excited. Jon Gordon is coming on the podcast. I know he's gonna be at our annual summit, etcetera, etcetera. And she said she goes, he is, like, the most positive person. Mister energy is what she said. But here's what you say. You know? You weren't really born positive. Right? Jon Gordon
Nope. Lisa Nichols
You know, what you know, if someone met the twenty five year old Jon Gordon, what would surprise them the most? Jon Gordon
Well, on the outside, they would see someone who had a lot of energy and who was fired up and passionate, excited, who was a mover and shaker at twenty five and accomplishing things and but they would see that that person didn't have much faith and didn't have much connection to God Yeah. And was powered by their own individual belief. But then as that belief waned, as circumstances became challenging. Lisa Nichols
Difficult. Jon Gordon
As there were times I wanted to give up, I had to find a greater faith, a greater strength, a greater source. And that's ultimately what led me to the real source of positivity. That person who met me would also say, you know, I I like him, but he's got a lot of work to do. And so been been been doing a lot of work all these years just to become, you know, a better person, a better father, a better husband. And we're all works in progress, but you gotta do the work. Yes. You gotta invest in yourself, and you gotta look for ways to learn and heal and grow. And I would say that twenty five year old version wasn't even remotely healed and had to work on the healing process. And if you know anything about Jesus, he he came to heal. It was a healing ministry. Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
And so God Not just physical healing. Jon Gordon
Yeah. It was it was complete healing. It was soul healing. Lisa Nichols
Heal. It's soul healing. Jon Gordon
And God God didn't just come to save us. He came to heal us, and that's what we have to remember. So for me, it's it's all about it's all about the healing. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. So that brings me to another question because, you know and I I know you're transparent with this, but your biological father left you guys when you were one year one. Right? Jon Gordon
I when I was one of my my older brother was, was about three or four. Lisa Nichols
Three or four. You know? And and, Jon, to your forgive you know, healing, the unforgiveness. There was some unforgiveness. And I think you took a journey to go and forgive your biological father, and you said you really did not write one word until you had done that. Jon Gordon
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
And then you had done the work of forgiving him. Jon Gordon
Yeah. I wrote about that in the power of positive habits, and it was in the writing of that book that I really thought about, wow. I didn't start writing until I went and visited him and forgave him. Before that, I had writer's block. I couldn't write. Mhmm. I had I had a faith encounter with Jesus. I had these encounters that really just led me to greater faith. I'm now transforming. I get baptized, and I wanna write. I wanna speak. I know that's my calling, and I can't. And so I went up to visit him to forgive him, but I wasn't doing that so I can write and speak. I just knew I was supposed to go forgive him because that was something I was being convicted on. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Jon Gordon
So I went up to Long Island, New York where I grew up, and and I went to go do that. I brought my daughter with me. And when I got back, I started writing. Now I didn't realize this until recently. Like, when I look back, I'm like, oh, wow. That's when I started writing, when I forgave. I had to let go of the old in order to create the new. Mhmm. Don't let old battles keep you from new victories. So often, we're allowing ourselves to fight these old battles that keep us stuck in the past. Mhmm. Like, God wants to propel us forward to create the life and the future you're meant to create. So I had to let go of that. Forgive that. Move on. Let go of of that hot coal that you're holding on to, wanting it to throw it wanna throw it someone else. Just let it go so you can actually create your life and create your future. And I did that, and I'm so glad I did. And I try to encourage other people to do the same. Like, really forgive. Don't hold on to it. Yes. They wronged you. Yes. They hurt you. Yes. You're justified in being angry. And yet, by being angry, by holding on to it, you're holding you back. You're poisoning yourself. So just let it all go, and you go be free to create your future. So that's why I call it forgive fast because the faster you forgive, the sooner you can start growing. Lisa Nichols
That you have freedom then. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Because it'll it it'll enslave you. Jon Gordon
It will. Faster forgive fast, and then you have freedom faster and sooner. And then once you have freedom, then you're able to really start start growing up. I had to forgive Michael Arrieta for for at his event at Garden City where we're at because when did I speak? Outside at dinner and then Lisa Nichols
at dinner? Jon Gordon
There's, like, a storm, like, just like the winds are blowing Lisa Nichols
Right. Jon Gordon
On the stage. I'm about to go up. And Chris Hodges, the second most influential pastor in in in the country, says to me, man, that's a tough that this is a tough environment. I go, I know. It's like he goes, I don't think I've seen a a harder environment. I'm like, I know. Like, it waves are crashing. You're it's pitch black. People just ate. People were enjoying some cocktails. Oh, Jon. And go give your talk up there. Lisa Nichols
Go give your talk. Oh my goodness. Jon Gordon
And I said, Michael, really? You want me to speak in this? But it was amazing because once I started speaking, I just felt the holy spirit, and God was just moving in a pout way. And I know I told that story of forgiving fast. And Lisa Nichols
Yes. And Jon Gordon
people came up to me and said, man, I needed to hear that. So so Lisa Nichols
cool. To hear that. Jon Gordon
I needed to hear it too. So it's so cool God used that story, that environment. Yes. And it it was the perfect environment for that story. It was the perfect environment for if it was the perfect environment during the day where people were on stage, like, normal talks that everyone else was giving, now let's put Jon on the pitch black storm stage. But but it was it was like, for some reason, God used it in a a cool mystical way to share these kind of stories. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Yes. I yeah. I can only imagine how difficult that was, but the message was not lost. The message was not lost on anyone. So kudos to the holy spirit. Kudos Jon Gordon
There you go. Lisa Nichols
To you. Oh my goodness. Well, I got a lot of questions here, Jon. But we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back on the Something Extra podcast with Jon Gordon. Speaker 2
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Welcome back, everyone, to Something Extra podcast with the amazing, incredible Jon Gordon. So, Jon, you know, you've coached Super Bowl champions, Fortune five hundred CEOs, championship teams. What do you believe separates great leaders from merely successful ones? Successful and you know, it's kind of like that significant versus success. Jon Gordon
Yeah. I think you could be successful with the numbers, with the win loss record. I would say great leaders are transformation leaders. They leave their mark on you. They leave their imprint. They put their fingerprint on your soul, and they impact you in a very deep, powerful way that you're thinking about that leader years from when that person led you, years later. I think about my coach, coach Richie Moran, who just impacted me in such incredible ways. I think of Ken Blanchard, who had such an impact on me. These are transformational leaders, and they don't just care about you and your performance. They care about you as a person. They really want you to grow, and they want you to develop, and they want you to become all that you're meant to be. And so I believe that they give everything that they are to help you become all that you are meant to become. Lisa Nichols
Oh, that's so beautiful. And for our listeners, you talk I mean, really, the seven commitments of a great team. Coach Ritchie is all throughout this book. So for our, Jon Gordon
team based on my real life coach Ritchie that I put in the seven commitments of a great team, and and he's someone who, you know, coach Ritchie impacted my life. And so, yes, coach Ritchie in the book, his mannerisms, characteristics, and so forth, that was coach Ritchie. And I wrote about him in a fictional way, but inspired by my real coach. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That's so cool. That's so cool. Let me let me ask you this. So we're we've talked about the energy bus. You talk about energy vampires. You wanna talk about that a little bit, but, you know, you've spent years talking about energy. Do you think one leader really can change the emotional of an organization, Jon? Jon Gordon
Oh, yeah. One leader who is a positive leader, who brings love, passion, care, transforms the team, transforms the organization. I've seen this with Dabo Swinney, the coach of Clemson University, the football team. And I've seen how Dabo and his spirit, his energy literally transformed not just the team, but the school, the community, and now an entire state because of his energy. Alan Mulally turned around Ford when they were losing fourteen billion dollars. He defined his leadership style as positive leadership. He transformed the entire company and the community. And thousands of jobs he was able to save because of his leadership, his energy, his belief. So, yes, one leader can change everything. You put a great leader in a school, That school principal will transform the school. You put a great coach on a team, that coach will transform the team. You bring in a great CEO, that CEO will transform the company. This is why I do what I do now. I am here to develop positive leaders who make a positive impact. And I've worked with the best of the best, and I've seen what they do. And my goal is to continue to share this with with all the leaders out there so they can become that kind of leader, so they can impact their team, their family, their organization. And if your team is five people, great. You impact those five people. If you choose a hundred people, great. Impact those hundred people. You have the ability to do that. Leadership is a transfer of belief. So you're transferring your belief and your energy every day to those that you lead and then has a direct impact on them and their performance. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Them and their performance, Jon. And there's one other thing I'm gonna add. There's a multiplication factor. Right? Jon Gordon
Be more. A multi yeah. It's a multi it's a I call it a ripple effect, and you call it a multiplier. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. It's a multiplier. Right? Jon Gordon
A ripple effect because you impact them, what happens? That person now is leading their family in a different way, their team in a different way, interacting with the customers and bringing more positive energy to the customers. So one leader has a ripple effect or a multiplying effect with how they lead and all the people that they impact. And when we work with leaders with our company, with our leadership development part of our company, our whole goal is to teach them to cascade the leadership down and throughout the organization. So you lead your direct reports. And then from there, your direct reports lead their teams. Those direct reports then lead their team. So you're cascading this kind of positive leadership throughout the organization. That's how you transform a culture. That's how you elevate performance and results. Lisa Nichols
So good. So good. So good. So good. You know, I guess if you out of all your books, I mean, you know and and it could be what you just said. But if there's one principle that you can leave through all of your book I mean, what what would be that one principle, Jon? Jon Gordon
I believe in many principles. That's the hard part. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. I know. That's the hard part. Jon Gordon
But but, I mean...Lisa Nichols
Well, name one. Jon Gordon
Optimism and belief. Mhmm. Those are competitive advantages. Like, when you have optimism and you have belief and you transfer that belief to your team, it really is a competitive advantage. We saw Yeah. We we so often poo poo positivity. We think it's soft. We think it's weak. It's actually the real thing that delivers results. Being positive doesn't mean Pollyanna. Like, it's not about Lisa Nichols
That's what I was gonna ask you. Yeah. Jon Gordon
It's not about it's not about seeing the world through rose colored glasses. It's knowing that Mhmm. You have the power to overcome the thorns. And it's definitely not about ignoring reality. It's maintaining optimism, belief, and faith to create a better reality. Because, Lisa, I often say, pessimists do not change the world Lisa Nichols
Throughout Have you ever seen a pessimist change the world? Never. Never. Jon Gordon
Throughout history, it's the positive leaders that do that. So so Right. I believe it's the most important part of leadership is that optimism and belief next to integrity. The integrity of what I say and what I do, there's no gap. There is a completeness. Integrity comes from the word integer, which means whole and complete. So when you have integrity, you have wholeness and completeness. And because of that, you have a strong foundation, and then there's moral authority, and your team knows they can trust you. So integrity is essential for leadership, but optimism and belief is sort of what you then convey to others to help them perform at a higher level. Lisa Nichols
That's so good. Yeah. From the energy bus, I mean, you say positive leaders yeah. I was gonna ask you about the Pollyanna because sometimes things are really hard. Let's just face it. There are economic challenges. There's political challenges. Business can be really hard. I mean, we've definitely in thirty two years of running our company, we've we've seen some hard, really hard seasons. And you say positive leaders don't ignore reality, but they choose to lead with hope despite the reality. Jon Gordon
And they create a better reality as a result of that because of their hope, because of their optimism, because of their belief, because they're not defined by their circumstances. Circumstances could be difficult, but they lead through the circumstances to create better circumstances. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That's so good. That is so good. Alright. Is there something that God's been teaching you specifically this year? And I I just your faith journey, Jon, you didn't even come to know Jesus Christ until you were thirty five, I think. Jon Gordon
Yeah. Yeah. Thirty five. Lisa Nichols
I was I was my mom was Jewish. Other things. Right? Jon Gordon
Yeah. Mom was Jewish, then I was into new age and Buddhism and all that good stuff in my twenties. I was a spiritual seeker. I always felt like there was a god, the father, who cared about me. So I always felt there was a personal god. Didn't understand anything about Jesus until I was thirty three, thirty four, until I started to listen to some sermons that friends gave me. And I remember going, wow. I think there's something to this. And I said a prayer. God, if there is something to this Jesus, I'm open. Show me the signs, god. And I started seeing signs everywhere. I was driving down the road, and I'm looking to the left. And I lit I literally heard look, and I turned to the right, and there's a sign that says, Jesus is the answer. It was a literal sign. And I kept seeing signs like that everywhere I went. And so, yeah, God was pointing me in that direction, showing me the way, and eventually, you know, came to faith at at thirty five years old, and it it's changed my life. It's the number one decision I made besides marrying my wife. That's the most important second decision I made. You know? Sometimes, if I'm honest, my wife, I feel, is my most important decision, but we know God forgives me for that. And then there is God. There is my wife, and then there's what am I here to do? What is my profession? How am I to live this vision and mission and purpose that you have for me, God? And so then I found that in in doing this work. So, yeah, God is always teaching me new things. That's how Yeah. New book new books emerge, new ideas. And so I've got, like, five new books that I have written down that I know I wanna write on. I'm just not sure which one to do next, honestly. And I'm I'm So Lisa Nichols
you're praying about it? Jon Gordon
I, I am praying, like, I'm praying, God, which book do you want me to write next? Like, what am I supposed to do? Mhmm. What am I supposed to write? And it might be a year. I might take a year off this time. I haven't taken a year off in a long time. I mean, thirty three books, but I think I might even take a year off. We'll see. But if God starts to put these ideas and I can't sleep and I start waking up and I start Mhmm. Writing things down, that's when I know I'm supposed to write a new book. But what I've been really thinking of a lot about lately I don't think there's a new book right now, but what I'm enjoying teaching and sharing is the fact that every leader has wounds that need to be healed. And so I really love talking to leaders about their wounds and the healing that must take place so that they can lead from the healing, not their wounds. Because if a leader is leading from their wounds, they're gonna lead with pride, with ego, with fear. They're gonna lead trying to get approval from others, and you're not a strong leader when you're leading from your wounds. I want leaders to lead from their healing where they're leading from that connection to God, where they lead with power and purpose and peace and presence, and then they have a greater impact as a result of that. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That's where transformation is gonna happen. Right? That's where transformation is gonna happen. I love that. Well, I I don't know. I'm I'm not putting words in your mouth. I know you're huge on gratitude. Our family does a gratitude circle every night. I think gratitude is huge. But is there one habit one or two habits, Jon, that have had the greatest return Oh. For you on your line? Jon Gordon
Yeah. The thank you walk. No doubt. I mean, the the walk of gratitude Lisa Nichols
The walk of gratitude. Jon Gordon
That I started doing over, you know, twenty five years ago. That is where all the book ideas have come. It's where I found the most healing, just the most peace. That one habit changed my life. And it's why I wrote the power of positive habits because one habit can change the course of your life. You just gotta find the right habit. This is not a book about how to build habits. This is a book of various habits that you Lisa Nichols
Different habits. Jon Gordon
Right. These habits will help you build a better life. And so as you pick some of these habits, you start doing them these habits, and you see how they they impact you. So that was one that really impacted me. And the other one was was when I learned to talk to myself instead of listen to myself. So instead of listening to all the fear, the worry, the doubt, the anxiety, I began speaking truth and words of encouragement to those lies. I call it becoming your own greatest encourager in the book. And the more you encourage yourself Right. And you're the greatest encourager. You you don't need the encouragement of others. It's nice to have the encouragement, but you don't need it. You are powering yourself to overcome your challenges, and that's when you get through all the obstacles because encourage gives you courage to take on the challenge. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. You I know you love Jon Maxwell. I do too. I'll never forget Jon saying one time, encouragement is oxygen for your soul. Jon Gordon
That's that's a great word. Lisa Nichols
Encouragement is oxygen for your soul. And he was talking about it in terms of encouraging your team Jon Gordon
Right. Lisa Nichols
And being an encourager to other people. It's like you're, you know, you are infusing their soul with oxygen when you do that. But yeah. You you know? And I you've got, like, I know you write about these three habits, the practicing unceasing gratitude, talking back to your anxious thoughts, and you do that. You know, if somebody's listening, they're like, what does that even look like? Y'all because I have anxious thoughts, and I have fears all the time. But how would I talk back to that? And for you, you talk back with scripture. You said you put truth in there. But, you know, I mean, what other things? I mean, if somebody's sitting there going, you know, yeah, I'm I have these negative thoughts running through my head all the time. How can I talk back to them Jon Gordon
and put up It's it's first understanding that the negative thoughts you have are not coming from you? And how do I know that? Who would ever choose to have a negative thought? You never would. Lisa Nichols
Right. Jon Gordon
The thought comes in so fast that you often believe it. You then speak it out loud. You reinforce it, and then it does become a part of you. So you're not the thoughts you think, you're the thoughts you believe. And you don't have the power of the first thought, but you have the power of the second thought. So when that negative thought comes in, it's knowing this is not for me. I don't have to believe this thought. I don't have to agree with this thought. I don't even have to listen to this thought. But what I'm gonna do is speak words of encouragement and words of truth to that negative thought. Like, the negative thought might come in and say you don't have it today. And the positive thought that you might replace it with is, with God, all things are possible. Right? Yes. I can do all great things through Christ who gives me strength. I feel weak, but in your strength, God, I am strong. God, use me for your purpose today. Guide me. Show me the way. Whatever it may be, you use that positive thought to counter the negative thought. And sometimes for me, it might be, hey. Stop being worried. You didn't come here to be average. Just go for it. And I'll even tell myself that. Or it might be scripture, right Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Jon Gordon
That you're saying. So Lisa Nichols
I love what you did that. Jon Gordon
Yeah. It depends on the situation and what you do in a practical way. I encourage people to do this. You write down your negative thoughts on a piece of paper on the left hand side of the paper. Write down those negative thoughts that often come in for you because each person has their negative thoughts. You have yours. I have mine. Each person is different. So you write down your thoughts. Then on the right side, write down the words of encouragement that you will speak to those negative thoughts whenever they come in. And as you practice doing this, you then start to become those positive thoughts because the thoughts we think and the words we say become the reality and the life that we create. As a woman thinks, she becomes. As a man thinks, he becomes. Your thoughts, your words are that powerful, so make sure you are speaking those words of life to yourself, and that's how we overcome our challenges. So that's what it looks like from a practical way. And then from a mental toughness way, it gives you resilience and strength. And from a spiritual way, you're taking the word of God and you're using it and applying it to power your life instead of the enemy's words and thoughts trying to derail you from your life. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. So true. That's gold. That's gold. And we know for a fact that we have a real enemy Jon Gordon
Oh, yeah. Lisa Nichols
Jon, And he wants to take us out. So recognizing that too, don't give him, you know, too much credit, but he's there. And, you know, he doesn't want us to become all that God intended us to be. Jon Gordon
And if people I'm thinking of the person that says, do we really have an enemy? And for for that person, just look around the world and look at the evil. Look at the sex trafficking that happens with evil people doing this, and they're literally trying to steal and destroy kids' lives. Look at the abuse that happens with with kids from adults and sometimes trusted loved ones. There's an abuse that happens, an evil that happens. And you can look and you could say, well, yeah, those people are bad. But within those people, there's an evil that is forcing them to do those bad things, that is leading them to do those bad things. And so you could just see that evil everywhere. You can also see it when you're just sitting there idle. I don't know about you, Lisa, but I had a time when I was sitting there idle, not doing anything, and a thought popped in and said, you should kill yourself. It literally popped into my head, and I would never choose a thought like that. And I knew that did not come from me. There's no way I would say it. It was like, what? And I literally was like, what? Now imagine you don't know what I know, and you think that thought is from you, and then you give it powering suggestion. Or the thought that says, yeah. You're not gonna make it. You should give up. It's hopeless. Would you choose that thought initially? No. But it comes in. And I remember being on stage once couple years ago, big old crowd, and I look out there, and literally, a thought popped in my head that said, remember that woman from a few months ago that didn't like your talk? Why would I be thinking about a talk a few months ago that didn't like it? And it popped in, and it came at the worst possible time as I'm on stage trying to break me of my confidence and my flow. And I saw it. I'm like, woah. And here's even here's even, proof of this that in a fun, but, you know, you know, maybe not a fun way. I don't know. I think it's funny. My son said to me one time, he goes, dad, isn't it weird how when you're single, he's like, the devil's always trying to get you to have sex, when you're single and not married. And then once you get married, the devil tries to keep you from half accepting your marriage. And every married couple will will understand and laugh at that. Yes. Yes. So true. And I I I heard that. My sons I go, how do you know these things, by the way? One one. And two, it shows you the devil is so subversive that that's actually what happens, and it's crazy. You know, when you shouldn't be, it's trying to force you to to to to to hurt your soul, to sin, to sabotage. When you're married, when it's okay, when you when it should be a beautiful thing, it's keeping you from it, and so you don't have the connection and the love that you're really looking for to keep your relationship strong. It's always trying to divide you and your relationship. It's so clear that there's evil and there's an enemy Lisa Nichols
Yes. Jon Gordon
That tries to keep you from yourself, from others, and spiritually from God. And that's what I wrote about the one truth. Right? There's this force trying to divide you, but there's a god always trying to unite you back to himself. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That's so good. I love that that your that your son used that, because it's so true. Oh my goodness. Jon Gordon
Gosh. I've got some like, where do I go from here? Lisa Nichols
I know. Where do I go from here? Yeah. I'm I'm just gonna let me do this. I'm gonna do a little quick little lightning round with you. Just a little fun lightning round. Which which of your books was the hardest to write? Jon Gordon
The Carpenter. I had writer's block, and I couldn't write the book. And I had never really had writer's block and only when I first started. Yeah. And after that, all the books were flowing. And then I'm like, the thoughts came in. Your best work was behind you. People are gonna think you're this new book is a piece of junk. Yeah. Energy bus is great. Training camp was great. People love those, but they're gonna say over. Yeah. You're you're done. You can't do this anymore. Wow. And those thoughts were coming in. And I woke up one morning, and this is my best advice to people. I woke up with the thought, it was straight from God, love casts out fear. Don't worry about the outcome. Just love writing. Love the reader. Love the process, and you'll love what the process produces. I wrote that down, and it became a huge part of the book and part of my teaching ever since. So for those struggling with fear of messing up, of making a mistake, of not performing well, if you have kids that are athletes and they're struggling and they have, you know, goals and they have things they wanna achieve, but they're perfectionists and they're angry when they don't play well or perform well, and it's affecting their performance and their happiness, just remind them, love casts out fear. Focus on the love of it, and you won't fear it because love is more powerful than fear. And I did that, and I wrote the book in two and a half weeks after that. Lisa Nichols
Wow. That's remarkable. That's that's right from the heart of God. That was a word right from the heart Jon Gordon
of God. Lisa Nichols
So, do you have a favorite Bible verse, Jon? Jon Gordon
Romans eight five six. A mind governed by the flesh leads to death. A mind governed by the spirit leads to life and peace. That's ultimately the choice we all have. I think it all comes down to that. What am I choosing? To live according to the flesh or the spirit? To the greed of this world, to the demands of this world, or to the spirit of God, spending time in prayer, allowing that prayer to renew me, recharge me, to transform me, to restore me, to give me faith and confidence and belief and power and hope. What are you gonna choose? The flesh or the spirit? Too often, we choose the flesh, and that's why we feel like we are facing destruction. But the minute we choose faith, we start to experience life. Lisa Nichols
That's that's a great place to end there. It's a great place to end. I can't I can't top that. Well, let me ask you this. You know, this is called something extra. And I know it's not just one something extra, Jon. That's an unfair question, really. But what do you believe is this something extra? I'll give you a couple that every leader needs. Jon Gordon
Every leader needs and needs to give more love. You know, more love. We all need more love, and we need to give more love. Going back to the carpenter, love, serve, and care. Like, love your people. Love the work that you get to do. Let them know you truly care about them. I I think about my grandmother who made the most amazing soup. And after she passed on, other people tried to make the same recipe, but it never came out the same. And I'm convinced it was her love that made the difference. Oh. The the phenomenon where certain restaurants and could have the same same, ingredient, the same recipe, the same dish, everything, but have different people make it, and it still comes out a little different. We can't separate the soup from the soup maker. We can't separate the meal from who's making the meal, and you can't separate the family and the team from the leader and the leader's love. Your love is gonna make the difference, and the love you put into it determines the quality of it. What stories do you want them to tell about you? And when you love your team, those stories are gonna be wonderful. Look at the stories I'm telling about Ken Blanchard. Like, I genuinely felt his love for me, and so his love made all the difference. My grandmother, I felt her love. Well, what stories are your team gonna tell about you? Did you love them and did they feel your love, or were you always pushing them, challenging them, and grinding them, but not feeling the love? Mhmm. I call it love tough. You gotta be tough, so let's get real. You gotta challenge Yeah. Lisa Nichols
You've gotta accountability. You gotta have accountability. Jon Gordon
You gotta have accountability. But accountability when it's a part of love means because I love you, I'm Lisa Nichols
not gonna let Jon Gordon
you settle for anything but your best. So I'm gonna love you, but I'm gonna challenge you because I see more in you, and I know you can achieve more than you are. I can know you can do more than you are. You're not living up to your potential. So because I love you, I'm gonna push you. But it is done from a place truly of love, and they know you love them. So now you earn the right to challenge them. Lisa Nichols
That's so good. That's beautiful. Beautiful. We'll do another podcast on this because you you're speaking my language Let's go, Lisa. About about love about love. I always say people feel you before they can hear you. Jon Gordon
That's good. I love it. Lisa Nichols
They feel you. They do. They feel how you communicate to them. And, oh my goodness, Jon. We could just keep talking and talking, but we do need to wrap it up here. I appreciate you coming on the show so incredibly much. You are my four hundredth guest, and, I just know that our listeners are gonna benefit from learning from you. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for who you are. Keep writing. Jon Gordon
Thanks for having me. Hopefully, we don't wait for another four hundred to do it again till we take Lisa Nichols
it to right. Well, I know I'm gonna see you at the annual, CEO forum, and maybe I might see you, at another event here soon too. So you take care, my friend. Have a great rest of the day. Jon Gordon
God bless you. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. God bless you. Announcer
Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc. Twenty nineteen. To learn more about this week's guest, check out the show notes at tpi dot co slash podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, consider leaving us a review. Thank you for listening to Something Extra. 