Nurturing Passions & Crafting Stories w/ Will Parker Anderson
Episode Details
Transcript
Explore the power of storytelling and the impact of nurturing childhood passions with this week's guest, Will Parker Anderson, Senior Editor at Penguin Random House Christian. Will & Lisa discuss his journey from writing poems as a kid to editing bestselling books and developing engaging content for projects like "The Chosen," all while reflecting on the importance of encouragement and intentionality in both family and professional life. Tune in for inspiring insights on how early influences and supportive mentors can shape a career—and a life—dedicated to meaningful stories.
Guest Links:
Credits: Host: Lisa Nichols, Executive Producer: Jenny Heal, Marketing Support: Landon Burke and Joe Szynkowski, Podcast Engineer: Portside Media
Lisa Nichols
Chromosomes. Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions that tell us who we are at birth. Most people are born with forty six chromosomes, but each year in the United States, about six thousand people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a person with Down syndrome. If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet. They truly have something extra. My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ali. Ali has something extra in every sense of the word. I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she meets. Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the world. While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that defines who you are. Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference in their companies, their families, their communities, and in themselves. If you like this episode today, please go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a Lisa Nichols
five star rating. I'm delighted to have Will Parker Anderson on the show today. Will is a senior editor at Penguin Random House Christian. Well, Will Parker Anderson, welcome to the Something Extra podcast. I'm so delighted that we can make this work today. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah, Lisa. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. So you and I always love to, to tell our listeners how we connect, and you and I connected via LinkedIn. I think you reached right? Yes. Via LinkedIn. You had reached out or somebody had reached out on your behalf. And when I looked into your background, I'm like, yeah. You are the perfect guest for for the something extra podcast and what we are trying to do with the show. So I'm just so excited. By the way, what a powerful platform. Right? Shout out to LinkedIn. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Who knew LinkedIn could lead to great conversations like this? I I love it. I I have connected with a number of folks on there and yeah. It's wonderful. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Oh, for sure. Well, I know that our conversation today is really gonna help our listeners, because you got a lot of knowledge, around communication and storytelling, Will, and I can't, can't wait to really jump into that. But I know that you grew up in Arizona. Will Parker Anderson
Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
And really growing up in Arizona has a lot to do with what you're doing today. So I would love for you to tell me about the heat of Arizona and how the heat of Arizona kind of sparked a passion in you, that, like I said, plays into what you're doing today about shaping stories. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Well, I'd love to hear the connection that you see between those because that's fascinating. I don't know that I've ever thought much about that. But, yeah, I was born and raised in Phoenix. I've been in California since two thousand and five, but a lot of my family's still there, and so I'm able to get back and forth. They come here, see the grandkids, of course. I've got three young kids. But, yeah, Lisa, you've intrigued me. What what's the connection between the heat and what I do now? Lisa Nichols
Well okay. So you you majored in journalism, I know, from Biola. Right? Beautiful campus, by the way. Our daughter our middle daughter, when she was checking out universities, our son was in, Studio City at the time, our older Oh, yeah. Our older child. Yeah. He was in the movie industry for a while. And when our middle daughter was looking at university, she looked at Biola, she looked at Westmont, Santa Barbara, and she looked at Point Loma, if you know where Point Loma is. I do. Decided against Point Loma because, well, the lecture halls overlooked much like what Pepperdine overlooked the Pacific Ocean, and she goes, you know, I am too much, you know, scatterbrite. She goes, I know I would not be able to go here. So I cannot go here. Yeah. Will Parker Anderson
That's hilarious. Lisa Nichols
I know. But we even went to a, at Biola and remember going to a general assembly with all the students. And, but, anyway, beautiful, beautiful campus. But here is what I am supposing. The heat of Arizona maybe, you know, would cause you to be inside a little bit more than you would be otherwise. Right? And then so you're having to figure out, okay. What am I gonna do? And you probably I I would love to hear the story. I mean, when did you really start having this love for words and for storytelling, that would make you want to major in journalism. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And you're right. I mean, it is in the summers unbelievably hot triple digits, of course, you know, one fifteen some days. So I've never thought about that, but it's highly possible that, of course, when you're a kid, you go outside no matter what. You you know, you play in the little pool or the sprinklers, lots of super soaker battles, water gun fights back in the day. But, yeah, my love for words, I think, really originated, back in elementary school, and it was really my parents who helped to draw that out of me. In two ways, they read to me a ton. So both my parents were teachers and I had to spend a lot of time in classrooms after everyone else had gone home from school. And, of course, just books everywhere in those classrooms, all the nineties classics, you know, I I would just sit and read all those kids' books. And, but when it came to writing, I because I read so much and my parents read to me, I would write stories and my parents would just cheer me on in that and and celebrate that. This is kind of funny. I would even write poems to family members on their birthdays, when I was like probably young elementary to mid elementary. And I entered some poetry contests and actually won, I think, in fifth or sixth grade. And so looking back, it feels silly. Like, what was this elementary kid doing writing stories? But actually, I think our passions and the trajectory of our lives is rooted in those early years. And so because I have three kids of my own, knowing how much the adults in my life nourished those gifts. And if we're honest, nourished them before they were anything to write home about, but just saw a seed of potential and wanted to cultivate and nurture that. I'm looking for those things in my own kids, and my oldest is just five. But already, you can see patterns. You can see the little inclinations of, my oldest daughter's heart and the types of activities she's drawn to. And those tastes and those passions will change with time, of course, or evolve, but, that really is a part of my story. So fast forwarding, from there, I became a journalism major because really my main question walking into college was, how can I write? And I maybe thought a little about being an English major, but ultimately went the journalism route. And then right as I was graduating, the recession of two thousand eight and nine hit. And so every newspaper, pretty much everywhere, had a hiring freeze. And here's the beautiful thing. I think I would have made a terrible reporter. That's just not me. That's not my lifestyle. Sort of always being on call, having to press people for information. I'm much more reflective and, I'd say creative, although reporters are are creative as well. But, anyways, God pulled me into ministry for about ten plus years. So I was a pastor and church planter here in Orange County and kept writing that whole time. But there is just this point where as a church planner, I needed supplemental income, so I was writing and editing on the side. And that just started snowballing, and I was getting more and more requests until finally, a door opened up at Penguin Random House. And, I'm now at Water Brook in Multnomah, which is a Christian imprint. We actually just created a new division called Penguin Random House Christian. And, so we publish mostly adult nonfiction and also do some kids' books, but I am thoroughly in the world of words and Yeah. Really passionate about the impact that writing can make. And who knew that in our digital age, books would still be something that they're not hanging on by a thread. They're doing quite well. Mhmm. Whether audio books, physical books that people are still reading, the industry is alive and well. And I think that too, when we have so many other options, speaks to the power of the written word and even the spoken word. Lisa Nichols
Right. Well, I you can probably tell behind me, I'm a lover of books too. Yeah. And in fact, what you don't see is I have a whole wall over on this side that is filled filled with books as well, and we've got books and boxes. Oh my goodness. I remember, Will, my husband and I, we met in church when we were three and five and grew up together with, you know, dated through high school, dated through he's a couple years older, dated through college. But, you know, one of our date nights, you know, would be like one of our favorite date nights was going to Borders or Barnes and Noble, you know, into a book. Will Parker Anderson
It's all gone now, I think. Right? Lisa Nichols
Borders. I know. Barnes has, has stood the test of time. But, there's just so much about what you've said that I really love. And I would love to do a study on this sometime because I have read a lot about, kids, and you kinda watch what they're drawn to. And sometimes very oftentimes, it circles back to what they do later on. So, like, if a child is playing with LEGOs and building things, there's a good chance maybe that they're gonna be in construction or they'll be an architect or, you know, engineer. I do think it, those early experiences to your point really do play in. And I just love the fact that your parents were cognizant of Mhmm. Your passions, right, and nurtured those. And I think it's just really important because it probably gave you the confidence. Will, you know, if they hadn't have done that, you know, then maybe you would have questioned, but I think it probably gave you the confidence to keep going and exploring what God had for you in that. So there's a lot about what Absolutely. What you said that I just love. My parents it's funny. When I was seven years old, they gave me a little blue typewriter. And I can remember, see, I'm a lot older than you are. You probably don't even remember what a typewriter is, Will. Will Parker Anderson
We believe it or not, we did we had one in my house. Lisa Nichols
You did have to pay. Way Will Parker Anderson
on that thing. Yeah. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. And I I would. I would just sit there and try to come up with stories and, you know, and I love writing to this day. So, I do think, you know, that those early things really do make a a big difference. Well, now listen. You have had the opportunity to work with some authors, some of my favorite authors and projects. Jordan Rainer. I think you've done a little bit with Jordan. I love Jordan Rainer. I love redeeming your time. It's one of my favorite books. Then he's written and then, he wrote the children's book, The Creator in You. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Such a good book. Lisa Nichols
Such a great book for those listeners out there with littles. Highly recommend getting that book. The creator Will Parker Anderson
The Royal in You as well. Lisa Nichols
That's Oh, The Royal. See, I'm not read that one. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. That one's a picture of heaven. Basically, it's the sacredness of secular work, which is his adult book Mhmm. Translated for kids and the illustrations, everything. We're doing like a promo for Jordan right now because we're we're all big fans, but, yeah, really excited, to be partnering with Jordan for sure. Lisa Nichols
That's awesome. And, and then you've had the opportunity. I'm not really sure what your role was there, Will, but you've had the opportunity to work on The Chosen, which is, like, one of our family's favorite series. Just incredible. What have you learned in working on The Chosen? What have you learned about biblical storytelling in a modern translation? Because it's you know, they've taken a little bit of liberty, but, you know, I really have not. I've just artistically, I've not seen anything that is incongruent to this to this point. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. So, I was never, an official employee, but I was a contracted writer for them. And so the project I worked on, they wanted to roll out some curriculum for gen z because when the show when season one dropped, they had a demographic in mind who would watch it. And what they were surprised to learn is that actually gen z was really interested. Like, if you could get Gen z to watch The Chosen, they were all in, like, really, really captivated and actually created a documentary where they had, I think it was eight or ten Gen z, you know, young adults watch the first season, and then they just recorded the whole experience. So anyways, what I did was they wanted to create a discussion curriculum for Gen z based on the show. And so we would get assigned episodes of the show, and then we would write, these discussion guides and questions, that were intended to spark conversation about Jesus. And so, so I I one of my good friends does a lot of fundraising for the show. So I also have kind of a window there. But in terms of my experience, I think what I learned is, number one, that that the film industry moves at an insane pace and it is no joke. It's like a, a hurricane of activity. And even doing this one project with them, I, I got to experience that, but yeah, you know, I would say they're so intentional about everything they do. And so even the curriculum that I had the privilege of writing, we went through multiple rounds of edits and just kept asking again and again, is this clear? Have we removed all of the Christianese or the words that people newer to faith may not understand? And I think that discipline really captures what the show is trying to do. It's walking such a fine line between wanting to be biblically accurate, cinematically captivating, welcoming to those who are outside the faith or curious about the faith. So it's like, that's a massive agenda. Yeah. And you I think they do a really good job. In fact, there was an article I read recently where they were breaking down. Here's all the things that creators of the chosen have to balance in it. I walked away with so much empathy because, of course, it has its critics. But overall, I think they do a really solid job. Lisa Nichols
Yes. I could not agree more. It is in you you use the word captivating, cinematically captivating, and it certainly is that. So I just we love it. We love it, and we kinda hang on. Oh, when's the next episode coming out? So well, let me ask you this. I mean, you see a lot of manuscripts and stuff, you know, Will, in your work. I mean, what do you believe makes a a manuscript go from good to great in your in your opinion? Will Parker Anderson
What a great question. That's my job actually is to to to try to champion an author's thoughts and ideas and words and really move them from good to great. I just had this conversation on my own podcast, it's called the writer's circle, but this literary agent was saying, you know, with the time allotted to create a book, like from the time that the manuscript is turned into the time the book comes out, you you can't take a mediocre manuscript and make it amazing. You can take a mediocre manuscript and make it good. Or if you receive a good manuscript, you can make it amazing. And I re I think that's really true. So that may be daunting to some listening. But so in other words, what I receive as a rough draft, I almost immediately know, okay. We're either talking, let's make this good or let's really push because I think this has a shot at being great. And some of the things that go into that, so many. Off the top of my head, one is books that are written out of the deep overflow of what God's spirit is doing in someone's life. There's a difference between writing about a topic and writing out of, the deep well of your own experience. And maybe you're writing about suffering, for example, maybe you're not actually in the season of deep suffering, but you've probably got to have tasted it or maybe someone close to you, you're watching them go through it. And there's just something intangible that translates to the page when you are living what you are writing. So that would be one. Another would be, timing. I think I've seen really good books go out into the world. I'd say great books go out into the world, and they don't receive a huge reception. And sometimes it's like, oh, I thought for sure this one was gonna hit bestseller list. And sometimes it's just a timing issue. I think God and his wisdom prepares audiences, to to be really receptive to certain books. And so there's just a moment in time where there's an urgency to the message of a book. A lot of people are feeling the ache that the book names. They need what the book is offering, and you can't manufacture that. That's what frustrates writers. As an editor, I get asked all the time, what makes a best seller or what does the market need right now or what what does this type of audience want? And I just say I point them back to my first point, and I say, just don't worry. You can worry about that later. But when it comes to choosing your topic, take it before God, talk to those who really know you and figure out, what what do you want to write about and honestly talk about for the next five years because that's what it's gonna be for you Right. Once you write this book. So and then there's the technical aspects of writing. There's is this book structured well? Or is it just sort of scattered thoughts on the page that now we're really gonna have to do a lot of rearranging and organizing, to make it Lisa Nichols
work now. Mhmm. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. The analogy I use that I borrowed from another editor is it's like pouring coffee. So a book that is unorganized, you might have the most delightful coffee. But if you just pour it out onto the table and it spills and it splashes everywhere, no one can actually enjoy it. It's just messy. What a a structured book does, a good outline, a thoughtful outline is it's basically like a mug. It's a container for your ideas. And once you pour that coffee into a mug, it's contained, it's drinkable, it's enjoyable. And so that's what a well structured book does. It takes good ideas and it puts them in people's hands so that they can digest them and enjoy them, rather than, you know, just kind of spraying them with all these ideas that you have. Right. And that's a great challenge. So that's a big part of what I do is getting in there and finding the big ideas and asking, okay, what order can we present these? How can we tell a story with these ideas And contrary to popular belief, an editor in my case, I'm a developmental editor. My primary goal is not to worry about punctuation and grammar. If I see it, I'll fix it, but that's actually what we call a copy editor. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Will Parker Anderson
And they get into the real minute nitty gritty. What I do is more in the realm of ideas, shaping the structure of a book, working on introductions, hooks, things that draw in readers. And so, anyways, that's that's a long answer to your question, but those are some of the things that I look for. Lisa Nichols
No. I love it. I love it. I love it. You know? Because we may have some aspiring writers, that are listening right now or have a book in them. You know? Now those are great points. You know? The timing of the book and the release of the book is so important. Tell me more, and you've already mentioned it, the writer's circle. So I know Yeah. There's a newsletter. I know there's a podcast. It really helps writers sharpen their skills. What inspired you will to start this community? And do you have any memorable successes that you've seen from, you know, cure writing this community for aspiring writers and and writers? Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Absolutely. So in my day job as an editor, I mainly work with published authors who have sort of they've built some kind of a platform. They've landed book deals. I do work with first time authors as well, but the majority of them have already established themselves. Mhmm. And I love to teach. I think that's one of the things that God has called me to do. So not just to edit, but to help coach and train writers. And being an editor, you get a lot of emails and people asking how does publishing work, You know, the very things we're talking about, what would make my book idea better? And I really have a heart to train writers, who are just still figuring it out to sort of demystify publishing, to share, you know, whatever insider knowledge, that I'm learning, and that's how I view it. I'm I'm just sharing things as I'm learning them, that may be helpful to them. And it's been a complete joy. I think, it's called the writer's circle. I have a podcast where I interview authors, literary agents, marketers. Basically, it's a Christian writer's dream. Like, here's all the stuff that you need to know and not just industry knowledge, but here's how you nourish your soul. Here's how you root your identity in Jesus as you are pursuing your goals, because writing is tough. Publishing is tough. Mhmm. It'll chew you up and spit you out. We need each other and we need encouragement, and I call it the writer circle, sort of a double meaning. Publishing sometimes feels to those who have not yet landed a book deal like this elite inner circle that they're unwelcome to join until they do something cool or accomplish something. And I wanna just erase that paradigm and and instead say, no. By writer circle, I mean, let's circle up just as humans, and let's help one another. Let's encourage each other. Let's be generous with our knowledge, so that those who really do wanna put in the work and wanna and want to establish themselves as writers have handholds or stepping stones, and they can at least take their next step. And on their hard days, there's people around them to say, keep going. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Will Parker Anderson
The Lord is with you. These words aren't wasted. Like, we need to hear those reminders. And even writers aside, I think we all just need that in the Christian life as we pursue whatever it is God has put in our hands, whether it's raising kids or running companies Mhmm. And everything in between, we we need people around us. And so I'm trying to provide that community and that equipping for writers. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. It's it's a beautiful ecosystem. And as you're talking, Will, I'm just thinking you're putting all of the pieces together, right, that there could be some amazing collaboration that even happens in that group when you've got literary agents and you've got the writers and you've got publishers and you've got all of these people in the ecosystem. Goodness gracious. I bet you I bet you there's some cool collaboration that's come out of that. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Definitely. Lisa Nichols
And I could not agree with you more. I don't you don't have to be a writer. You can be a business owner. We all need people. I I laughingly say, I had those people in my life. I'm sure you do too. I hope you do. That are my Barnabuses. You know? They are my Barnabuses. They are my Encouragers. And Yeah. Goodness, we need that. Right? Just as Mhmm. Have those people that go keep pressing on. You know? You're you're you're gonna get there. Well, let me ask you this. You you've said before in some of the things that I've researched that editing is like pastoral work. Can you expand on that? What do you mean by that? Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Absolutely. With any industry and certainly publishing, we compare ourselves to others all the time. I do it. I I I see a lot of writers doing it. It it's the world that we live in. And so what I've discovered is that all the technical aspects of my job aside. Right? Like, I'm hired to make a book better. That is my job. But the the real joy of what I do, and it includes that part of it, but is getting to walk beside authors and form friendships with them. And, you know, they're going through stuff, the ebbs and flows of life. They, have disappointments, frustrations. And so just getting to be a constant presence. And at the particular publisher I work for, I'm actually with my authors from step a all the way to step z. So from the moment we first start working on the book through all of their marketing meetings, their prelaunch, you know, their launch phase all the way until they release it. And then even afterwards, there's more work to be done, believe it or not. But Mhmm. I get to walk beside them. I love praying for my authors and with them. I do that quite often. And they don't just need someone with expertise. They they need to be seen. They need encouragement. They need someone that's safe to process with. And, you know, publishing moves quick, and so there's a lot of it's a it's a team, a massive team that works on one book. Mhmm. But I get to be their point person. I get to be, like I I said, their safe place. Love that. Because I was a pastor for so long, it's just in my DNA, honestly. I and, you know, I I'm not preachy with them. I don't I'm not always like, well, let's start this meeting in prayer, although there's nothing wrong with that. But it's really I'm just listening, and I'm trying to sense, okay, where is this author in life? And just last week, I I had my very first meeting with an author working with him for the first time. And he mentioned in the course of our conversation that was really a professional conversation. We're we're working out what is our editing schedule, how do you best work, how do I best work. But in the midst of that, he mentioned this has been the most intense season of spiritual warfare I've ever experienced. And, I just flagged that in the moment. And then at the end of the call, I said, hey. Can I just pray for you? And, you know, it's nothing earth shattering. It's normal, you know, follower of Jesus stuff. But I think some folks would be surprised to know that even in Christian publishing, it there's just so much to do. And the pace is so fast that that stuff either can become perfunctory or just going through the motions. Like, we just pray to start a meeting because that's what Christians should do or it gets forgotten. And I think I've tried very imperfectly, mind you, I've tried to cultivate a sensitivity to God's spirit and and just reading the room and knowing, hey. This may be a moment that I can bring, my my pastoral gifts to bear, or just my my presence as a brother in Christ to these authors. And I will tell you the reverse is also true. I've had authors texting me in the last few months, asking about some medical things I was facing, saying, hey. How are you feeling? How's treatment going? And so I'm on the receiving end as well. I'm not the hero of the story. I I'm just a a brother in Christ who is, you know, doing hopefully good work with these writers. But, yeah, I love that part of my job, the relational slash pastoral element. Without it, I wouldn't enjoy what I do nearly Lisa Nichols
as well. Right. Well, it's what really gives it meaning, Well, then I'm thinking, you know, you're not their editor just their editor. You're doing life with them at that point. Mhmm. And that's just a beautiful thing. Well, we do need to take a quick break. And when we come back, well, I just I wanna get into just communication in general, because there are you know, there could be CEOs, CMOs, aspiring, business leaders, all types of people. And I just feel like communication, honestly, is one of those skills. I don't care what your role is, what you're doing. We can all hone that skill and work on that skill to move the needle to to become better communicators. So this is what I'd like to talk about when we come back. So we're gonna take a quick break, and we'll be, right back with, Will Parker Anderson on the Something Extra podcast. AD
In business, the tendency is to seek out partners who are bigger, faster, stronger. When it comes to IT, you should be looking for smarter, faster, better. That's just what you'll find with the talented technologists at Technology Partners. Our experts develop custom solutions to tackle your most complex challenges, all to simplify your processes in the smartest, most efficient way possible. The time to be swift and nimble starts now. Go to technology partners dot net slash solutions and see what's possible. Lisa Nichols
Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with Will Parker Anderson. So, Will, I've absolutely loved our conversation. But here, I wanna dig in deeper just to communication. It's just such an important topic. I don't care who you are. We we always need to be looking. How can we how can we improve this skill? Because it's so important. In fact, so many times, we'll even in teams and, like, dysfunctions with teams and things, if you really drill down to it, sometimes the root is miscommunication or thinking that you've communicated and all you've done is just said some words. But, you know, communication is so much more than that. Right? It truly is. Like, how did the person on the other end receive that? Did they receive it? Did they understand what you were trying to communicate? And and if they didn't, then it's really the communicator's responsibility to go back and and, try to tweak that. But, you know Yeah. Have you do you have you had a situation where you can look and see what do you think one of the biggest mistakes that leaders and others can make in communication? Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. What a great question. And just so listeners know, I have a passion for writing and the words on the page, but I also love speaking and communication and, broke my heart. But I I turned down, an invitation to speak at a camp this summer, which is my absolute favorite thing to do. But with family commitments and everything else, just couldn't do it. But, yeah, to me being invited to do, you know, a week of talks where it's like we need five or six talks. I love that. I love getting into that knowing that, you you have an opportunity to speak life to people. But, to your question, there's lots of roadblocks. There's lots of, landmines that we can unknowingly step on. So the first one that comes to mind is, we we overcomplicate or we we say too much. And simplicity and communication is everything. Right? I also I went through seminary. I went through preaching classes where where they really break down the theory of communication. And what the experts say is that really max what the human brain can handle and whether you're doing a twenty minute talk or an hour long talk is about three big ideas. And the three point sermon is a famous formula that Mhmm. You know, all all those good Southern Baptist preachers like to employ. But anyways, yes. Limiting yourself to three ideas and learning the art of outlining. So maybe you do have ten things you really wanna say and you're like, no. These are all essential. I don't wanna lose any of them. I have this one thirty minute slot, and I wanna maximize it. Well, that's great. How can you take those ten if they absolutely can't go, which I would definitely press on a little. Like, tell me more about these ten. I'll I'll this editor will help you eliminate some. But Yes. Let's say you really do have ten things you wanna say. Well, how do you package them under three points? How do you fit them together and put them in com mental compartments so that people can take those ten ideas away with three souvenirs, like three big ideas. And there's a lot that could be said, but, one of my favorite analogies and it's attributed to different people. I apologize. I can't remember. But if you just picture, a giant slab of marble and if your task is to chisel out a statue, like the famous statue of David out of that block of marble, what we do as communicators is we think, oh, the more I say, the better. The more I'm either gonna prove my knowledge or I I maybe we have good intentions. I'm going to provide the most value I can, so I'm just gonna pack this with information. That's the wrong question. How much can I keep? Master communicators ask the opposite question. How much can I eliminate? And so it's like you're carving out a statue from a block of marble. Your job is not done. You don't have that final statue until you have chiseled away absolutely everything that can go until all that is left is your masterpiece or the core of your idea. And so I say simplicity, that's the principle. The actionable piece there is to become a ruthless eliminator and to really not hold back. And, actually, it's like spring cleaning, the relief you feel as you're donating or giving away things that you don't need. You gotta shed those ideas. And once a communicator learns to travel lightly and they see the impact that simplicity has on their audience, it becomes addictive. And pretty soon you're like, you feel this relief because you don't have to say it all. You you don't feel less than, you don't feel like you need to impress. You're really focused on serving your audience. And that's what this is all about. It's, not to say this in a confrontational way, but it's not about you. It's it's not about me. Right. As we are communicating, it is a act of love and an act of service. And, I I remember one of my first sermons. I had a friend who was really wise, and so I asked him, hey. What do you think of that message? And he gave me his honest thoughts. And I remember one of the things he said was, well, you're about ten, twelve minutes in, and I realized you were still in your intro. That was a bit long. Lisa Nichols
And it Will Parker Anderson
was like, wow. I didn't even realize. Mhmm. And so, maybe that segues into the next point, which is receiving feedback and not fearing it. I know so many communicators and many of them are pastors who have become so fossilized in their bad habits, week after week after week, and they make it's a logical fallacy that the longer I've been doing this, the better I must be. There's a whole field of study around this called deliberate practice, which says, no. More reps does not guarantee improvement. What it guarantees is it's reinforcing what you're doing. But if what you're doing isn't, isn't correct, isn't useful, then you're just cementing bad habits. And that sounds harsh, but, man, there is so much freedom and growth and welcoming feedback. Of course, I'm an editor. I'm gonna be talking this way. Right? But truly, here's the paradox that I've discovered. The communicators that I most look up to who are have the most skill, the most charisma, honestly, the most favor over their their speaking ability, they are the least offended or scared of feedback. They actually are more hungry for input for people to tell them, tell me what I'm doing wrong. I just had an author I deeply respect and honestly look up to tell me last week, Will, I want you to make this the best that it can possibly be and hold nothing back. I think of athletes like Michael Jordan who literally had a coach, a trainer for his diet, for different parts of his game, for his recovery, just all these experts around him. So the best actually know they need help the most. And it's our insecurity, our our imposter syndrome that says, no. I got this. I've been doing this for a while. You know, I don't need help. And so I would just encourage people to ask the question. If you're a communicator, when was the last time you welcomed someone who you deeply respect, who has knowledge and wisdom to just critique your communication and to help you find ways to improve. What you'll find is it increases your confidence. You know? That initial sting is hard to hear. But on the other side of that is knowing some of your blind spots and, it it becomes such a rewarding process. Wow. Lisa Nichols
That was that was just gold. Will, that was just gold. I mean, you just said blind spots. How do you identify? But you're blind to it. You have to have a mirror. You can't. Right? You gotta have that mirror. And I always say that feedback is a gift. It truly, truly is. And so but I think about, okay. What does it take though to receive the feedback? It takes humility. Yeah. It takes a willingness to be vulnerable, to say, hey. I I realize I am not the smartest person that were a room, and that is that often boils down to our pride thing. Right? It really does, and pride, as we know, is very dangerous. But I there's just so much. Goodness gracious. We could do a whole podcast. I could just keep asking you questions along this line. But Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Real quick too, because not all feedback is created equal, and some have maybe received unkind, untrue, or unhelpful feedback, and I totally get that. And so Yes. I've been on the receiving end of some really harsh words that have echoed in my mind for years, even though I know it wasn't fair. So there's four and this will be super quick, but there's four questions that I've thought through in evaluating feedback that helps you parse that out. And, hopefully, we all have someone readily in mind that can offer thoughtful, tactful, challenging feedback. But the four questions are, is it trustworthy? We have to lean on relationships. Mhmm. If you don't know a person at all giving feedback, gotta be really careful how much you listen to. Yes. The second question is, is it specific? So rather than that was a bad talk, that's general and fuzzy and doesn't help you. Is it specific? In other words, like my friend, hey, your intro specifically was ten minutes. It should have probably been three or four minutes with the time you had. The third question is, is it true? Sometimes the feedback that hurts the most or isn't super helpful still has a shred of truth and so it's a learning to parse out. Okay. Is this actually true or if it's partly true, what is the part that I can actually hold on to and then leave the rest behind me? And then number four, last question, is it actionable? Is this feedback something that I can actually take and do something with? So going back to my example, absolutely. The next time I preached, you better believe my intro was Was was probably still, like, six or seven minutes if I'm being real. Mhmm. But it it put it on my radar, and then I could actually do something with it because it was specific. So, anyways, just wanted to throw that in there too because I Lisa Nichols
That's gonna go for a little bit. Mhmm. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. I see those people who have been burned before by harshness. Lisa Nichols
Absolutely. And to your point, if you allow that in, without asking those questions and having that discernment, will that stuff can echo. Right? And it can be damaging and and limit you. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
So no. That's really great. I have just a couple more questions, and then we're gonna talk about something extra. You wrote a post that I read, lately. I would really highly encourage our listeners. Go follow Will. I mean, he he's, you know, he's very active on LinkedIn. He's writing great post. Connect with him, because I think what he's putting out there is gonna really help you. But you wrote a post that I read about engaging your your kids in scripture over the summer, and it was really a powerful post. You're like, you know, we can do all these things, but why not take this time to really get them ingratiated more into scripture? I think you've got three kids of your own. You already mentioned that. Callie Hayden. And what's the what's the baby? Will Parker Anderson
Our youngest is Adley. Lisa Nichols
Oh, I love that name, Adley. Yeah. Callie, Hayden, and Adley. Can you share an idea with them? How can they what what can they do if this is important to a listener? Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Well, really, I mean, I I love scripture, and it's it's been such a a part of my life even from an early age. I've always loved it. And I think part of that is because my parents found ways of just modeling what it looks like to love scripture. It was never a rote discipline or it was never made to feel, boring or like a chore. So my my parents would often just share sort of off the cuff, like, I was reading this verse and here's what this means to me. Here's how it's speaking to my life right now. And so I really want my kids to experience the same, and I think it can be intimidating for most of us as parents to think about how do we introduce our kids to this massive book that's hard for them to understand. Of course, there's wonderful children's bibles and resources, but, for me, one really simple thing is we have occasionally chosen memory verses for our kids, just verses we want them to learn. And we've found that, teaching them through song is by far the best. So song and rhythm. And if you just YouTube it, you can find so many resources. You could put in the verse you're looking, unless it's real obscure if you're in, like, Leviticus somewhere, maybe not. But, Lisa Nichols
you know, any of the things way. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Like, for it is by grace, you have been saved. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Will Parker Anderson
Right? For God so loved the world that he gave his only son. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. All all the the headliners, you you can find multiple songs on all of them. And so we'll just listen to those in the car on trips, for a while. I and it's always changing with the seasons, but we would do every morning. We'd watch one of those those songs. But I also remember, I went on a a daddy daughter trip with my oldest. This was now two two summers back. And, I just got out my real bible, and I found the memory verse that she was learning through a song. And I pulled out a highlighter, and it was really fun for her. We just highlighted it in the Bible. That was literally it. It probably took ten seconds. And then I think we went and found the second and third verse that she had learned. And that is so rudimentary. And you it may sound boring on the surface, but she really enjoyed that little activity. It made her feel, special. It was like her getting to do something in daddy's big Bible. And Right. I think we, we put too much pressure on ourselves that somehow we have to be these master Bible teachers or have this robust curriculum. Honestly, even just putting your Bible on the kitchen table and mentioning it, something that simple is where it starts. Hey. Do you know what this is? Oh, this is a Bible. Do you know what a Bible is? Well, this is a book that God wrote to us. This is daddy's favorite book. For them to see you opening it, holding it, and part of that maybe, you know, putting your smartphone down. They're gonna figure out there's Bible apps eventually. They're gonna run circles around us technologically. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Will Parker Anderson
But, yeah, just having a physical Bible around, I think is a huge win for little kids, especially. And then, of course, as they get older, you can start to actually do real studies for them. And I've done that a lot with others in my life. As my kids get older, I'm really excited to start doing that with Lisa Nichols
them. Conversations. Yeah. That's so good. Well, I've talked to so many people that'll say, you know, the that my grandma's bible, you know, was always on their coffee table. I mean, it there is really something to that. And then and I will attest. I mean, I learned some Bible verses, as a young woman, you know, a young young person that I still remember. And I listen. I learned the Gettysburg address through song. So there is definitely a connection there. There definitely is. So I love that you brought that up, that that parents can Google that and find these amazing verses, that that someone has put to song. I've got a little lightning round for you. I know you're a fan of Mexican food and rich Mullins. Will Parker Anderson
Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
You know, what would your dream party look like, okay, knowing that you love Mexican food and rich Mullins. It's gonna include some sort of, you know, good good singing and, tacos or something. Right? Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Dream party definitely would always include Mexican food. I would add of all varieties. Like Arizona is an interesting scene for Mexican food. It's got some, like, Tex Mex vibes to it, but then a little bit more authentic Mexican as well. And then, of course, here in California, Tex Mex is anathema. We're a little too healthy here on the coast. So it's a lot more, authentic Mexican food. Obviously, we're we're really close to Mexico, and it's a wonderful part of our culture here. So but, yeah. A a great party for me. There's gotta be music for sure. Yeah. If it can be live music, that's probably the dream. For my thirtieth, a number of years ago, my wife, had a a songwriter friend of ours come and and play, a live set. And we have done a lot of worship nights or just, almost open mic nights in our our backyard. So I have all all the speakers, the mics, the sound system. I'm a musician. So we love anything that involves live music, not just like a Spotify playlist. Lisa Nichols
Right. Oh, I love that. I love that. Did I dream this, or did I read the are you a drummer? Will Parker Anderson
I am a drummer. Lisa Nichols
Okay. So see, it was in there somewhere. Will Parker Anderson
It's impressive. Yes. Lisa Nichols
Oh, okay. Good. That's awesome. Well, I grew up with music too. Music has always been a very big part of my life since I was, like, four years old. I started singing solos in our church and just, I love music. It's the universal language. Is it not? Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Really is. Will Parker Anderson
I mean, Lisa Nichols
can move your soul like nothing else. But Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
Let me ask you this. You've got a saying too. Here's a willism. You said that you run on caffeine and grace. So what's your go to coffee? What's your go Will Parker Anderson
to? Yeah. Well, the those are just a curve ball because I actually am a huge tea drinker, which people it confounds them. They're like, what are you drinking? I get made fun of a lot for it if I'm being real, but Yes. I I stick to my guns. I do like coffee. If I'm gonna drink coffee, the reason I don't drink a lot of it is it wires me in a way that I I can't sleep and, I'm getting a little older, Lisa. So, you know, coming up on forty here. And, it just wires me. So but, yeah, I drink a lot of black and green teas is my go to daily drink. And that gives me I drink it all day. So Yeah. I don't know if that's good for me or not. I think it is. I it's supposed to Lisa Nichols
be it's supposed to be good for you. I'll ask our nutritionist, and I'll let you know. Okay? Please do. Yeah. Okay. I have one last question to ask you before we talk about something extra because I know that this is a question that you ask your guest. Will Parker Anderson
Oh. Oh, no. Oh, no. Lisa Nichols
I know. I know. See, I turned the tables on you here. Okay. So if life was a book, what would the title be? Will Parker Anderson
Oh, no. Lisa Nichols
Oh, no. Will Parker Anderson
You got me. You got me. Oh, wow. Yeah. I had an author, who I was interviewing flip it on me, and I was like, oh, no. No. This is your interview. You can't do this. I've interviewed dozens of people I don't know that I thought about it but I'll I'll come up with an answer for you okay man this is so hard I'm I'm experiencing in real time what I do to the office that I do what you Lisa Nichols
do to your guest Will Parker Anderson
I I've actually I started giving them a heads up because that's only fair. Yeah. Yeah. I I can't believe that. With something better. Lisa Nichols
I can't believe that. Will Parker Anderson
The editor. Lisa Nichols
Well, I Will Parker Anderson
know how much goes into the titling process and so I feel that pressure. But Mhmm. What I think about right off the bat and something that I often carry with me is a gratitude for the patience of God. Like when I think through the seasons of my life, I just think, wow, I was either so foolish or so clueless in that season, and yet God was the same there as he is now. And I'm probably still foolish stumbling around in so many areas that I don't even recognize. Mhmm. And so just we talk about God's patience, but the depth of his patience has always gripped me. Like, I can't believe, for my whole life, he has been present. So my title would be something about that. Lisa Nichols
I like it. Will Parker Anderson
I like it. Grateful for the patience of God. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Absolutely. Steadfast, the steadfast love of God. Bring with us. My goodness. How many times we mess up. You know? And to your point, he continues to pursue us. He's patient. He's like, I'll meet you where you are. You know? It's just that's so good. I love it. Well, let me ask you this because this is the question I ask everyone of my guests. What is the something extra you believe every leader needs? Will Parker Anderson
That's a fantastic question. There's something extra that every leader needs. You know, I would probably say, to rest in the grace of God, but but really to know that, you're not going to get it right and that you don't have to create a false narrative that spins what you do into, you know, perfectionism. But you can actually really lean heavily on the grace of God to cover those mistakes, the times you didn't know what to do or did the wrong thing. And actually, I had someone say to me once, lead out of your weakness. Don't hide it, but put it in in the forefront. And that's not to say you overshare or you're just emotionally leaking on those that you lead Mhmm. Or over divulging. But what it means is you are vulnerable, and humble, and you're willing to show your need for grace and the confidence you have in that grace of God more than in yourself. And here's the thing, people will exploit that at times. Mhmm. And they will be unfair and hurtful and say things like, oh, well, I knew that you were always dot dot dot. But for the majority of folks that you're leading, that's going to give them freedom to be real and to know that you are a safe place. And, yeah. So Lisa Nichols
It's beautiful. Will Parker Anderson
Lean on grace and lead out of weakness. Lisa Nichols
Oh, now there's a book title for you. Will Parker Anderson
There it is. There it is. You're welcome to use that one. Lisa Nichols
Book title for you, Will. Well, hey. Listen. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on to the show. And I just know that, everything we've shared here, I mean, I know it's gonna help our listeners. I encourage our listeners reach out to Will, and, you know, follow him. And I I just know that I've learned a lot today, and I've been inspired. So thank you so much for your time. Will Parker Anderson
Yeah. Of course, Lisa. It's great to be with you. Announcer
Thank you for listening to today's show. Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc two thousand and nineteen. For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit t p I dot co slash podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen.