No. We were we were playing summer soccer, and, hey, we were in shape. And we were literally on vacation together up at Big Crystal Lake in Northern Michigan, the week before the, reporting the training on Sunday afternoon. It's Friday afternoon. We're sitting on the lake... On the beach, and we look at each other and go, hey. What do you think about the twelve minute run? I don't know. What do you think about it? So we literally went back to the house, put on some running shoes. He got in his car, and we we mapped out a two mile track on the street. And he had, you might remember this, the old Armitron watch. It was one of the first electronic watches. And he says, ready, set, go, and we take off. And now Rusty was always a way more gifted athlete than I was, and so he got ahead of me real quick. So, I mean, Lisa, I'm pushing as hard as I can the whole time. And as I'm coming to the last fifty, hundred yards, Rusty's standing there at the at the end of the run with his watch out. And as I cross, he hits it. And I said, what did I do? What did I what do? And he says twelve fifty six. Oh. And I was like... I mean... And I thought I pushed as hard as I could. And I was like, oh goodness. I've got... I have to cut a minute off. Now... And I have to tell you, the the the the value of making the run was huge. Because if you didn't make it Monday, you had to run it Tuesday. If you didn't make it Tuesday, Wednesday, you had to do it every day of preseason. Not only that, I was a scholarship athlete. It'd be pretty embarrassing to... You know, it was, like, huge, huge premium on making this run. So I was wise enough not to do anything Saturday or Sunday because I knew I can't change, you know, reality in two days. Show up Monday morning. He pulls us into the corner a little before six AM, and he looks at us, coach Dave Deal. I'm still friends with him today. He, he says, you know, I'm looking at each one of you, and I can tell some of you are physically ready for this run. Then he looks around again. He goes, I can also look around and see some of you aren't physically ready for this run. And he says, but I'm telling you, this run is eighty percent mental. Well, after he said that, I just locked into that. And I'm like, it's eighty... And he sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher after that. It was, wah, wah, wah, wah. Because I was just... It's eighty percent mental. It's eighty percent mental. I'm making this run. So we take off. It was nine laps. I kid you not, Lisa. I get to lap six, and I am in more pain than I've ever been in my life. And, and I literally thought, go down, fake a twisted ankle, do something, do anything to get out of this pain. You know? And then something clicked. It was like something clicked that said, this is the eighty percent mental part. And I just, in my mind, said, no. I'm making it. I don't care. I'm making this run. I made it through lap seven, made it through lap eight, came around for lap nine. Assistant coach Paul Henning was on the corner with a stopwatch, and he shouts, you got a minute twenty four. You can make it. Well, the first thought was I ran the first lap at a minute twenty six. So now I'm like, you know, my mind goes great. You gotta run the last lap faster in the first, but I just said I'm gonna make it. I took off. I came around the final hundred yards, and coach Henning's down there going nineteen, eighteen. And, I mean, I was spent, but I somehow found another kick and just everything I had. And about with fifty yards to go, I was like, wait. Do I hear a donkey? And what I was hearing was, and then I realized it was me. I was like... And as I'm running, I'm going, oh my goodness. I sound like a donkey. But I said, I don't care. And I crossed the line at eleven fifty six.

My goodness. Four minute... Four seconds to spare.

Four seconds to spare. And it just, you know, it it hit me that, you know, I don't know if it hit me exactly right then, but I realized that so much of life is about being dumb enough to believe a statement like it's eighty percent mental, but then smart enough to take the pain, do the work, do what's necessary to make it happen. And so when Edwards... When I heard of the Edward Jones opportunity, and they said go go meet a thousand people face to face, go meet, five hundred of them a second time, Try to solve a financial need for them. Do this over and over and over again. You're gonna have a successful career as a financial adviser. I was like, alright. I'm dumb enough to believe that. So I did it.

You did it.

Yeah. And then it was, you know, hey. You know, if you get back to the firm, act like a partner, etcetera, etcetera. And and so I was dumb enough to believe that whole story too. And, you know, as you point out, twenty three... Well, ten years as an adviser and twenty three as a principal, I've never forgotten that, and I think it's a really, you know, in fact, a friend the other day, texted me. It's all about DEBSED, d e b s e d. Dumb enough to believe, smart enough to do.

I love that.

Yeah. Definitely.

I loved it. Yeah. You must have said that to him at some point.

Absolutely. Well, it's it's a good friend of ours, Zach Clark. You know you know

Yeah. Oh, of course. I know Zach.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, gosh. That is so awesome. Well, it definitely worked out for you. I mean, and just so much is mental. It is true. But, you know, there's so much in that story because the preparation is so important, Greg. I bet you that taught you a lesson about preparing.

Hundred percent. I never showed up. Presentation. The next year, I... Next year, I cruised, to the run at eleven forty five without any, you know, any any issues at all. But, you know, you make a great point. I mean, that was a huge lesson, like, do not show up. I I, you know, I vowed to myself I was never gonna do that again. Mhmm. You know, I was glad I did it. Grateful that I had the opportunity to do it and and learn what I learned, but it was lesson learned, never doing that again. And I do think there's a a real true spiritual tie there. It's faith with works. You know, James teaches us that. You know, you

That's right.

You have to have faith, but you also need to have works combined with it. And that's that's a very rudimentary example of that. But it... But it... It's it's singed in my brain, if you will.

I love that. Yeah. Faith without works is dead. Correct. I mean, faith is, you know, dead if you don't see the fruit. Right?

Hundred percent.

So so good. Well, let me ask you this. So we... I think you retire... You retired in twenty nineteen, I think.

December of nineteen. Yep.

Right before the the shutdown.

Crazy.

It was crazy. But, you know, after you retired, you'd had this illustrious career. What made you think, I'm not done yet. God's not done with me yet. And I know, you know... I mean, I know you love to go off, and you did that, but you went on to do some real estate investment. Yeah. And, you know, you're not done yet.

No. It's... Thank you for asking that. And and and candidly, probably in the last twenty four months, I feel like I've really kind of, you know, if in a way finally heard from God or was listening, enough and open enough to hear what is it that he really has for me. You know, you... I think you know I I was, I enrolled in the the halftime institute at the beginning of nineteen, which was the whole idea to help you figure out what the second half is about. And me being a pragmatist, I've I've said many times, I said, let's be honest. I'm not in the second half. I'm probably in the fourth quarter. But that's kind, you know, to call it halftime. But,

you

know, I did do, you know, private equity. I did do a bunch of real estate stuff. I did, you know, got, you know, got to play golf more, etcetera, etcetera. But candidly, there was that smoldering discontent to say, this isn't what it's about. And so it was interesting. I did a silent retreat, which I would recommend for everyone, with a caution. Don't go, on a silent retreat for two or three days asking God to speak and not expect to hear it, because you will. And then the question is, what are you gonna do with it? And, actually, two things came out of that silent retreat. One, candidly, from a personal financial standpoint, was start gifting to your family now. And so I said, okay. You know? And when I was, I would have been maybe sixty, maybe not even sixty yet. But anyway, no. I wasn't. And as an adviser, I always thought you don't have clients gift until they're in their seventies, but it was clear. You need to start gifting now. And then the second thing, the the story... I always have a story. We're in Colorado. They had, free bikes you could use, and so I took a bike and rode to the end of this trail, locked the bike up, and I was gonna find the perfect serene, you know, spot in the mountains to hear from God. And I kept hiking and hiking down this trail, and I kept running into mountain climbers, and I'd run into mountain bikers and and hike... And everywhere, I kept running into people. And finally, I was like, I'm gonna spend all day hiking if I don't stop. So I finally said, okay. Here's a good spot. I sat down, and I'm looking out over the hotel we were staying at and the highway. And that was part of the message was God was... In my... What I feel like I heard was, hey. You're supposed to still be engaged. You're supposed to be reaching out, to communicate to masses. So, again... And I'm in the process, frankly, of decoupling from private equity investing, from real estate investing, because I believe my purpose now is to use words written and spoken to engage and inspire the next generation. And so everything now funnels through that grid. And if it's not something that will help me use words written and spoken, engage and inspire the next generation for the kingdom, I say no.

You don't need to be doing that.

I had a I had a private equity call the other day, and I told them... I said, look. You know, I I I appreciate what you're doing. I made a lot of calls myself in my career, especially as an FA. But I said, I am wasting your time because you could tell me this is a guaranteed hundred percent return, and I'm not interested. Because I don't wanna be dis... I know those types of things take more effort energy than I'm willing to give, and I wanna give a hundred percent of my effort and energy, to that purpose.

Right. You know, what a gift. Right, Greg? You really have that clarity

The clarity. Yes.

On your purpose, but I heard a few things from you. I mean, you took the time to get a loan

Yes.

Number one, with your silent retreat. And to me... I mean, faith is everything for us

to make sure. Hundred percent.

And I'm never going to be living out my true purpose without the wisdom of God.

Yeah. That's just...

That's it. You know? Short and simple. You know?

Hundred percent.

And so, like, leaning in and listening to him and talking to him about it, I think, I just heard lots there. So, yeah, I I love, I love the whole thing about storytelling, but let's let's get into the boy from Sherwood Crescent. And I've got lots of questions for you here. I would love for you to tell us the story behind this, and we are, right now, the book is scheduled to come out probably in November.

Correct.

So this will probably... This episode will probably launch a little bit before the book comes out, but I really want our listeners to hear Greg's heart. And when that book comes out, looks like make it a bestseller. So, you know... But where where did the story come from? I know the story was inside of you for a long time.

Yeah. I mean, thanks for asking. It was probably, thinking back, a good twenty five if if... Somewhere between twenty five and thirty years ago. I had this story, you know, brewing inside of me. You know, earlier I mentioned, you know, even in my twenties, I thought I'm gonna write a book, and I jotted down notes, and I would save resources. I have files and files of stuff. And then like I say, it was probably... Maybe it was twenty years ago where I was challenged by a dear friend and brother to say, Dos, you know, you're a storyteller. Tell like a story. And, that began that part of the process, and I'll never forget, I was, you know, back in the the day I was the area leader for the west. So I had the twelve most western states. You know, I was on the road seventy, eighty percent of the time in airplanes. And I was either flying back from Honolulu or... Because Hawaii and Alaska were part of my territory. I was flying back from either Honolulu... I think it was Honolulu because it was a very, very long flight. And I had been upgraded, so I'm in first class. And the story was just coming to me. So I had my iPad out. And I mean, Lisa, I was typing away for two, two and a half hours. Just do do do do do. Just going at it, going at it. And finally, they say, hey. It's time to... You know, we're in the final approach. Please put up your equipment, blah blah blah. So I do all that, and I said to myself, gosh, I was a real jerk. I didn't say boo to the guy next to me. And, you know, you've traveled enough. You know the obligatory safe question. I said, so are you coming to Saint Louis for work, or is Saint Louis home? You know? And and he goes, I'm coming for work. And then he goes, dude, please tell me you're an author. Well, remember, this is twenty five years ago. I'm a partner at Jones. I'm not a Sure. I, you know, I have imposter syndrome now. I really had it then. And I was like, well, and then before I could even answer, I was hedging. He looks at me and goes, because all I was thinking is I don't wanna be the poor SOB getting that email.

That's funny.

Because he saw, you know, he he saw the two and a half hour hour email. So that's... You know, and and candidly, the, the story was always to me about a boy who was orphaned, but raised by just a God fearing, fierce grandmother, that was just, you know, amazing. Because I had a God fearing, fierce, amazing grandmother in my life, mamaw. In fact, I even get a little emotional just mentioning her. She was just an amazing woman of faith. Give you a little bit more about her, I didn't know until after college that my mamaw was illiterate because she grew up literally as a coal miner's daughter in Kentucky, and had to drop out of school at age eight to help the family, you know, with the chores and everything. But my mom told the story that, my papa used to read the Bible to her daily. And then when he died, my mom said, you would find mamma in the morning with her cup of coffee, the Bible open on her lap, and her hands on the scripture. And then she turned the page and put her... Because she believed that the word would reach her heart.

Would reach her heart. Oh.

And if you knew her, you wouldn't doubt that God granted that, that, that commitment on her part. But anyway, the story was was rooted really in that. You know? That I wanted, you know, people to hear a story of how a faithful mother, a faithful grandmother can really impact a life. And the other big thread is what's meant for evil, God can and will use for good, especially when we find the way to love through it. Yeah. So that... I don't know if that's what you're asking, but that's...

No. That's I love that. And, you know, I wish I'd known your grandmother.

Oh, I... You woulda loved her. You woulda just loved her.

Just... Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a lot of questions about your grandmother, but I think you... Well, So, like, your grandmother was illiterate, but would she just talk to you about faith? Would she talk to you about what God had done in her life, Greg? I mean, how would you...

It was it was just simple things, Lisa. Like, it was simple things not only that she said, but that, my mom shared. You know? But, you know, for me as a little boy, she was just present. You know? I used to love to just go sit, and we'd sit on the couch together. And I would pull the skin on her hand and say, mama, your, and she goes, oh, I've got old skin. You know, I've got old skin. Mama's got old skin. And then, like, my mom would tell stories like, mama, you know, she had seven sisters. And she said, you know, we'd go before mama and say, mama, am I pretty? And she'd say, pretty is as pretty does, honey. Pretty is as pretty does. And, you know, little things like that. Yeah. You know, she used to say, you know, we're not rich, but, clean doesn't take a lot of money. Soap is cheap. You know, so we still stay clean. You know, if you weren't feeling good, she'd say, well, just get up and do something. You know, get up and and straighten a pile of something. Just do something, and you know what? You're gonna start feeling better.

You're gonna start feeling

better. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, I remember walking to the store with her, you know, just like I said, just a sweet, sweet presence and just, she embodied faith. You know? I mean, it it wasn't like she was constantly open the scriptures or quoting scriptures to me, but in her presence, you knew you were loved, and loved dearly and deeply. You know?

And And that's huge. Impactful.

So impactful.

So impactful. Knowing... Yeah. I... I've often said that. Like, you know, when people ask me about children, and I've not done this perfectly, but I'm like, you know, your kids need to know that they are loved no matter what.

No matter what.

You know? No matter what, that you're in their corner, you know, no matter what they do, you know, because it does. It just gives you so much, security

Yes.

And... Right? Well,

it's so funny you say that because, you know, Zach and I talk all the time. We're like, we all stink at parenting. Let's be honest. You know, nobody's good at it. You know?

Nobody's good at it. Right.

I told my kids, I go, you're gonna stink at it too. I know I did. You know?

Right.

But at the end of... And a good friend of mine, I I was just... He came in nobody. Came and visited me up in Michigan. We got to be friends because we got in a fight in sixth grade. Went to the principal's office. This is back in the day. We actually got paddled. That was that was a thing, you know, back in

the nineteen seventies.

And so we went back to the the the, classroom where the fight started, and the teacher did a wise thing. He said, you two go up to the library. So Marty and I had to go to the library. And in the library, Marty looks at me and and he actually started the fight. And he looked at me and said, I can't say... I can't apologize because my dad said if I apologize, it means I lost the fight. And we were talking about that just three weekends ago, and love his dad. His dad's ninety six. Love, love, love his dad. But we both said, we love your dad, but what terrible advice. You know? Terrible advice. But he was doing... And I said, but at the end of the day, you know your dad loves you. You know? And and that's, you know, that's the best we can do, I think, in many, many instances. And the other thing I point out to people, I had this conversation with Jim Daley from Focus on the Family. I said, you know, we all think we're gonna raise these perfect God fearing, Jesus loving children. And I go, well, look at God's first two children. You know? How'd that turn out? And how about his first two grandsons? You know? Yeah. One killed the other. Yeah. So, I mean, what what makes us think we're gonna we're gonna reach perfection in our parenthood? You know, again, the love is gonna be the key, and and my hope is my kids, and my son in law's and grandkids at the end of the day will recognize my faults, I'm sure. But I hope they know I love them. And always always

will. That's so good. Well, Greg, we need to take a quick break. I got lots more questions, though. Alright. We're gonna take a quick break, and we'll be right back with our dear friend, Greg Dosman, on the Something Extra podcast.

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Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with Greg Dozeman. This has been so much fun for me so far. I hope it has been for you, Greg. But in your book, there is a line because I've had the the privilege of reading your manuscript, that really grabbed me. And it said, the wound heals. The scar remains.

Yeah.

So what does that mean to you personally? I know that you and and Sharon have been so blessed. You have had mountaintops. You have had been given more than you could ask or imagine, but you guys have gone through some valleys too, Greg.

Yes. So And and it's so wise of you. And I'm so pleased that you pulled that line out because that was a very, very personal line, for me individually. You probably know or might remember, we actually lost our first child at birth.

I do remember.

And it was a horrific, traumatic experience that candidly shouldn't have happened. You know, we ended up with a nine pound one ounce baby girl, that just never took a breath, because candidly, some would suggest the physician should have done something sooner, etcetera. And the baby was... You know, her hand got twisted around the umbilical cord and lost blood and oxygen supply, etcetera. And we had this perfect... Literally perfect child in every way except she never breathe. And, that's that's an experience that I've said is that, you know, when you go through an experience like that, you you can't... For us, both of us, I remember one day, a few days after it all, I said to Sharon, I said, I don't know how to pray. And she said, either do I. And we actually talked to our pastor at the time about... And he said, that's okay. You know, God knows. That's okay. You know? And it's just that... And it wasn't anger. It wasn't... It was just an emptiness, you know, of of... And I remember, I think I was twenty eight years old, and I can remember the v... I was in a Chevy Tahoe, driving, like, the day after to the cemetery to pick out a cemetery plot. And I remember saying out loud, I was like, god, you're not supposed to do this at twenty eight. You know? I don't get it. You know? It just... It... I don't I don't understand. But the... So the point of it all is that that puts a deep, deep scar on a person's heart, But by God's grace, the wound heals, the scar remains, you know, because it's marked us, it's marked me, but some scars are beautiful, you know, because of what they mean. And, you know, so that's that's why I wanted to to put that message in there. And and and the other piece of the message is what's meant for evil, god can and will use for good, especially if we learn to love through it. You know, that's the thread throughout the story. And... But I'm also careful to tell people and caution people, you don't tell people that when they're in the middle of it. Because when you're in the middle of that crush, you can't connect the dots to see how god can use this for good. You... Your mind isn't able to do that or your heart or your emotions. However, we look back ten, twenty, thirty, it's thirty plus years now since that happened, and we can connect dots and say, that was terrible, that was awful, we have the scar. However, God has worked in and through that for good, and that's one of the prime messages of the story I want people to get is we live in a broken world. We're gonna have trauma, trials, tragedies, awful, awful things that are real. However, god can and will work in those if we continue to love through it. And and most times, we're able to look back and connect the dots and say, wow. And so that's why that piece of the story that I'm so pleased that that jumped out to you because that's that's that's what I would hope would have happened. Thank you for bringing that up.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and I just know, personally, I know that you and Sharon have gone on to help other people that have found themselves. We have a a mutual friend that lost a baby. Same thing. Yes. Sharon was able to minister to her. Amen. And, you know, I mean, if you've never been through that, if you've never walked through that, you can certainly feel sympathy

Yes.

For that person, but you don't understand. No. And you guys understand Yes. What that's like. I know you've been able to help other people.

Well... And and, Lisa, I think of you all and Ally. I mean, I'm sure when you were told, oh, there's this issue with your child, it seems so traumatic. But I know he... There's no way you would trade that for the biggest pile of gold on earth because... But at the time, you're trying to struggle with it like, oh, and you can't connect the dots. But now you go back and you look at how god's used her. I mean, it's it's unbelievable.

It is unbelievable.

Here we are. We're doing a podcast because of it.

You know. Exactly. Exactly. Oh my goodness. Well, you know, what do you hope happens? And I don't know if you want to... I don't wanna give it away. I don't wanna give it away. The the character is Seth.

Yes.

The little boy is Seth. Do you do you wanna just, like, touch on what... You know, just a little bit of the through line. I don't wanna give it away.

But you mean the tragedy? Yeah. Yeah. I... What do you think? I... I'm happy to do so if you think.

Yeah. I just just... Readers go get the book. That's that's what I'm just gonna

tell you. Okay.

Go get the book. But let me ask you this, Greg. What do you hope happens inside the reader when they finish the book?

Well

because I know you wrote the book so it can impact someone.

Yes. Yeah. You know, that that reader. Again, the words written and spoken engage and inspire. It's... You're so good because you're literally just going right... Jotted some notes down and you're going right down. So one of my dear, dear friends who, wanted to read it, and I said, okay. So I gave him the manuscript. He sent me the most wonderful email, and here's what he jotted down and sent me in this email. And I thought... I literally said when I got... I said, man, if anyone asks me this question, I'm just gonna read John's responses. He said, this is what he got. This is what the the highlights he took. Truth is found in God's holy word. A kingdom beyond this world is achieved by pursuing the truth. The kingdom is in sight. Pursue it with all your heart. Love bears all things, believe all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. The most... This is this is a, a personal quote for me. The most beautiful lives are those that are marked by death, the death of self to love others more. There's always beauty to be seen even in sad times. Be foolish enough to believe and wise enough to do. Emptying the cup of me, be filled with love for others is the path to true riches that money can't buy. Pouring ourselves out to love others is the end. It is the riches. Don't fear. Don't let fear destroy love. Love overcomes fear. The foundation was more important than the man. Those deeds that hate those deeds that are... That hate means for evil, love can turn for good. Oh. So if

you That is good.

Yeah. That is really good. I I was like, if no one else reads the book and Yeah. John got that out of it, I'm like, wonderful. Glad I did it.

I love the pouring out of self. Right?

Yeah. We gotta learn that every day, though. Right?

We do. We do. And there's so much intentionality behind it. You know? I told you about John Pepper, having John on the podcast, Greg. And at the end... Now he's eighty eight years old now. He's got lots of experience. Right? I said, okay, John. I'm gonna give you a couple of something extras. Not just one. I said a couple. You know? And his first one that he said was love.

Yeah.

You've gotta love the people that you serve.

Yes.

You've gotta love them, but we cannot love other people when we're so filled up with ourselves.

Hundred percent.

You know? I mean, if we are too self focused, I'm not gonna notice you. No. I'm not gonna notice when you're in pain. Right? So I just... I love that you just... That's the way you describe that. That was so beautiful. Yeah. I mean, we we had talked about this, you know, where... You know, you talked about how we often can't see what god is doing while we're walking through something, but years later, we can look back and we can connect the dots. You know? I I know Greg and I have so many stories about this too. You know? But, Greg, when did you first realize that?

Wow. No one's ever asked me that. Lisa, that's a powerful question. When did I first realize that? I don't know that there was one moment of epiphany that, oh my goodness. I think it's been gradual. Simple. Yeah. And and progressive in that I've learned it more and more even so to this... To the point where I no longer feel this need or compulsion to see it because I believe it so firmly now in my heart that, you know, there's things I pray for today, especially around my family that I hope I get to see, but it doesn't change. If I don't get to see it, I don't care because

It doesn't change your faith.

It doesn't change my faith and Yeah. You know you know, in fact, it's getting back to kids again. I remember, again, chatting with Jim Daley from Focus, and I said, you know, the verse that so is quoted, you know, raise up a child in a way they should go. And I and I point out, it says, when they are old, which means I may not be here.

Right. When they are That's a great point. When they're old, they want to part. Yeah. But, I mean, it doesn't say how old.

Yeah. So they could be, you know, they could be eight years old. I'm gone, long gone. But it doesn't change my prayer. It doesn't change my heart because, you know, I'm I'm so grateful, frankly, to to get to this point where I'm like, okay. I don't have to see it, but I know the dots are being connected. And, again, I wanna be careful to mention, it doesn't diminish the evil. It doesn't diminish the tragedy or the the trauma that someone goes through. That's real. You know, it's not to diminish it. It's just to say it... It's acknowledging the evil, acknowledging the tragedy, the trauma that we are in a broken world, but, you know, faith, hope, and love, you know, to get through it. You know? And then then, hopefully, God's blessing and gift is that you do get to connect the dots on some of these things. But, hopefully, it creates that faith in you that you don't have to see the dots connecting as you continue to move. Because I know there's more trauma, trial, tribulation I'm gonna face. You know, I'm sixty three. You know? If God gives me another fifteen or twenty or whatever years, there's gonna be more of that. But I'm... You know, God willing, I'm gonna continue to be faithful knowing that he will continue to work through this.

That's so good. That's gold right there. You don't have to see it to believe it.

Right. Right. That's what faith is. Right?

To... That's faith.

Yeah.

That's faith. You know? And we are to walk by faith, not by sight. Right? So That's right. So good. Well, I want to talk about marriage.

Oh.

So you and Sharon, who I absolutely one hundred percent adore. She's a sister from another mister.

Yep.

But you've been married to Sharon since nineteen eighty eight. I know that you guys have taught classes. I remember you guys talking... Teaching classes on marriage. Greg, what is thirty eight years of marriage taught you about love that you did not know when you said I do?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that'll take another hour.

Okay.

Yeah. Well, it actually... I I literally kinda cringe and shudder to think... Because that was probably ten, fifteen years ago that we were teaching, and I'm like I'm like, what a joke. I mean, I knew I knew... I'm like, oh my goodness. And and and, you know, candid, I would share, and and I've shared this more. The last... You know, I'm sixty three. I'm gonna say from, like, fifty five to sixty, your age was was the biggest challenge in our marriage, to be to be candid and and being transparent. In fact, I was able to speak at our alma mater's chapel, and I shared this, you know, for the first time publicly. So, hey, I did it in front of a thousand, so I can I can speak it on your, podcast?

Right.

But, you know... And, again, it it ties into the idea that, you know, I really truly believe that you view life as a puzzle, and and faith has to be that centerpiece of the puzzle that everything, you know, your love for for family, your love for friends, and even your love for foes, and then how you use your finances, your fitness, and your things you do for fun. Applying truth to all that really does provide freedom.

Mhmm.

But me being me, I like to get my financial plan all in order. So set it and forget it. It's done. I like to, you know, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. But what I've learned is that the the puzzle of life with faith at the centerpiece, you have to pull the puzzle pieces back in the box at the end of every day. And then the next day, you you pile them out and you go, okay. Which is gonna be the centerpiece? And I think I I share that to say that, you know, as we plan for retirement, you know, I had this plan going back to, you know, you know, shocker, ten years before retirement, I had a plan. And I shared with Sharon the plan was gonna be, you know, we're gonna spend January through April in Florida. We're gonna spend May and June in Saint Louis. We're gonna go to Michigan July through Labor Day, and then back to Saint Louis through the holidays, and then like the shampoo bottle, rinse and repeat. And I can be passionate and persuasive in, ideas like that. And, Sharon was like, okay. Yeah. Alright. That sounds good. And as soon as she said that's good, I'm like, hey. I got the green light. We're gone. So as you know, you know, purchased a property, build a magnificent beach house in Florida, did all this, and it all and it all started to crumble, two thousand eighteen ish when we took possession of the house because Sharon was starting to get cold feet. Like Yeah. Oh, I... Oh, we're gonna have some grandbabies. Some... I don't know if I wanna be a Florida resident. I don't know, you know, all this stuff. And, you know, forgive me for my crassness, but it's the best way I can say it. I was an ass because it was like, hey.

No. This was my plan.

This is... And you agreed to it as if she didn't have the right to change her her mind. And so, you know... And and I remember saying before we took possession of the house, well, I'd rather sell it right now, than never spend a night in it because I know it's gonna be spectacular. And she was wise enough to say, no. She wasn't gonna let me do that because then I would've held that against her forever. Mhmm. So we had to process through this. And what I've said, and that's really where some of that, the most beautiful lives are marked by death, death itself. I say... And I even said from the stage, to my alma mater student body, I said, you know, to the men and the the young men in the crowd, I said, you know, we as men like to say, I'd give my life for my wife, you know, or... And I said, you know, you haven't even met her yet, and you're making that statement. Right?

Right.

And I said... But I said, that's just... That's one zero one freshman level manhood. I mean... And I said to the ladies, if a guy won't do that, run. But you gotta make sure a guy would literally physically give his life for you.

Right.

But Sharon never doubted that. You know you know, if if the guy came up with a gun or a knife, would I take the bullet? Would I...

Oh. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. But was I willing to die to self in all the little ways?

In all your ambition and all your plans and plans and

all that. Right. And, it really hit me at a young couple's wedding we attended, and they were saying their vows. You know, I vow and, you know, I pledge. And then it was almost like God said, unless she doesn't go along with your retirement plan. And, it was like

Wow.

Convicting. And, so I've begun to... And that's all part of the, you know, decoupling of of Yeah. Our lives of where the plan was. And the plan now really is connected together. It's it's around the grandkids. It's around, you know, really more of a home base in Saint Louis, you know, and all these things. And so God's good, but it it took some real, really tough, tough, times, you know, to to get through that and get to this space.

Oh, that's so encouraging, Greg. That is really so encouraging. So I know that there's listeners out there that are like, one day, we'll get to where we're in this place, you know, and everything's gonna be blissful. You know? I mean, it's a process. We are evolving Yes. As individuals.

Yes.

Right? So... But, yeah, I love the decoupling and the... I love what you said about, yeah. Yeah. I'd take a bullet, but will I die to myself on all these ambitions and plans? Because that's really what it's about. Right?

It

coming together on dreams and plans.

Yes. And you quit looking at the other person to change and look to your... You know,

so, you

know, there was

a... You

you being a music, member FFH, the group Far From Home.

Yeah. Yeah.

We... Clearing out our basement, we found one of their old CDs, and and I kept playing the song Lord Move or Move Me.

Oh.

And That's good. Great song, you know, and it's Yeah. And that's so poignant. It's like quit asking for God to change the other person, ask him to change you.

Yeah.

But if you ask that with a sincere heart, get ready.

He'll do it. Yeah. He'll do it.

But but there... But there's there's joy in that. There's... I... I'm way more joyful today than I definitely was in two thousand eighteen, nineteen, or

twenty. Yeah. Yeah. I bet Sharon is too.

Yeah. I hope so.

I hope so. Well, congratulations. Aubrey and Nick just had your fourth grandchild.

I know. It's amazing.

It was... I knew it was coming, and this is so funny. This is what I didn't tell you, Greg, before. I I knew it was coming, and I texted Sharon Wednesday and said, hey. Is the baby here yet? And she said, today. Yes. Yes. And I'm like, wow. Yeah. Timing is everything. But now you have four four beautiful grandchildren. You got two son in laws. Yes. You know? What is the legacy that you want to leave for them? I mean, what do you... I mean, you're... You've definitely have a legacy professionally. I know that you've just built into so many people over the years, Greg. But what do you hope people say about you?

Yeah. Well, you know, let me just say one thing I've realized, and and Sharon's been gracious. I have such a higher appreciation for motherhood as a grandfather than I ever did as a father. And and I wish that weren't true, but it is true. And she's been gracious. She said, well, you know why? You were working ten, twelve hours a day. When you came home, you were exhausted. And... But when I see what you women do to even bring a child into this world, and then the sacrifices you made, I've said to my buddies, I said, if God would have made it that we didn't know which sex was gonna get pregnant, I said, the Earth's population would be twenty five percent of what it is today. And my my buddies say, yeah. We'd all be only children. Yeah. They would be like, I'm never doing that again. And then I see my daughters doing this, and I'm just... I'm in awe. I'm just in awe of what they do. And so, for a legacy, really, it gets back to that line that... Two things. I said, one, I hope they would say, you know, dad lived a beautiful life because he died to self. And I think I've still got a lot of work to do to have that happen. I wouldn't expect them to say that today, candidly. And so that would be, you know, one piece of the puzzle. The the second legacy, I would hope that when I go, they literally say he had zero fear of death. He he just had no fear, because he knew he was crossing over from death to life. So I guess that would be

Aw. That's beautiful.

Two two hopeful legacies, I would hope.

Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, Greg, this is called something extra. What do you believe is a something extra that every leader needs?

Be willing to die to self. That... You know, a leader that really is truly willing to die to self. And we got the greatest example of that ever with Jesus Christ. Yes. That's the real deal.

That's beautiful.

That's it.

I've never had anybody say that. I've had people say self sacrifice, sacrifice, but dying to self. You know? Yeah. And because we are here to serve our people, whether that's our family or whether that's our people with... That we work with. Right? Yes. So dying to self. I love it. Well, my friend, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for making the time to be on the show. And I just, I just want our listeners to to go out and get the book and be watching for his second book because he's got a second book in him that he's been working on. So it's gonna be just fun to watch how God uses, this second half Yes.

Or the

last quarter or whatever you got left.

Whatever I got left. We'll

see. Whatever you got left. Yeah. So thank you, my friend. No. Thank you. Sticking in with you.

Yeah. God bless. What an honor. What a privilege. You would have guessed we'd got to do this when, Aubrey and and, Paige said ketchup and and both named Greg. You know, here we are.

Exactly. And here we are. Alright. Have a great rest of the day.

Alright. God bless.

Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc twenty nineteen. To learn more about this week's guest, check out the show notes at tpi dot co slash podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, consider leaving us a review. Thank you for listening to Something Extra.