Leading with Language w/ Bill Tingle
Episode Details
Transcript
Bill Tingle, a former CIO, shares profound lessons learned from his diverse career, including his time at Enterprise and Pods, and how early life experiences shaped his leadership philosophy. He discusses the transformative power of ontological coaching, emphasizing the critical role of precise language, clear commitments, and shared understanding in building trust and driving results. Dive into a conversation about how leaders must learn to flourish, not fear, the power of AI to gain more capacity, and why the ultimate goal is creating organizations that act as a dream maker for every employee.
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Credits: Host: Lisa Nichols, Executive Producer: Jenny Heal, Marketing Support: Landon Burke and Joe Szynkowski, Podcast Engineer: Portside Media
Lisa Nichols
Chromosomes. Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions that tell us who we are at birth. Most people are born with forty six chromosomes, but each year in the United States, about six thousand people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a person with Down syndrome. If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet. They truly have something extra. My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ali. Ali has something extra in every sense of the word. I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she meets. Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the world. While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that defines who you are. Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference in their companies, their families, their communities, and in themselves. If you like this episode today, please go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a five star rating. Lisa Nichols
Before we get started, I'm excited to share that my book Something Extra is now available. It is rooted in the remarkable spirit of our daughter, Ally, and the heartfelt conversations we've had on the podcast. You'll find wisdom and practical tools to ignite the leader within you and uncover your own something extra. Visit something extra book dot com or find it at Amazon or in all major bookstores to order your copy today. I'm grateful to have Bill Tingle on the show today. Bill is the founder and CEO of Tingle Leadership. Well, Bill Tingle, welcome to the Something Extra podcast. I have been looking so forward to to spending this time with you because every time I'm with you, I learn something. I feel like I come away having being coached. Bill Tingle
Oh, yeah. Lisa Nichols
You've got so much wisdom. Bill Tingle
I feel the same. I've been really looking forward to it. I enjoy listening to your podcast and all your amazing guests. And I'm when I think about your guests that have been on your show, I don't I don't feel like I deserve it. It's just so such an honor to be, you know, listed among other people and and to share my story and however I can help anybody. So thank you so much. Lisa Nichols
Well, you're a rock star. So literally, literally and figuratively. Yeah. We'll talk about that. Bill really is a rock star, but, in many different ways. So let me ask you this. You know, tell me a little bit about your early life and things from your life, early life that maybe have shaped you as a leader? Because we're you've been a leader for a very long time. Bill Tingle
Yeah. I have. And, when I was young so I I grew up in the Midwest. My dad was a chemist. He was a scientist. And he was born into a family with two deaf parents. And so he was the oldest child, and and he ended up being the leader of the family because, you know, two deaf parents, they they you know, my my grandfather had a very low paying job, and he was really ambitious to go to college and get a degree, and he was very influential early in my life. And one of the early memories I have was with him. He created what would be called a side hustle now. So he created a janitorial business so that in the evenings, he could make more money, and he could also give a job to his parents, and they could make actually more money than they were making anywhere else. And very early, I began working with him, and he taught me so many things about leadership. And I didn't realize how much he taught me till I started reflecting later as an adult. But just integrity, quality, what it means to satisfy a customer. You know, he used to come along behind me and check my work, and I just learned so much about that. And I think one of the other things I learned with him was I eventually man at a young age, I was managing people, and I was managing people much older than me. And when you're early in your career as an adult and you get into management early, you're gonna manage people with a lot more experience. They're further along. And a lot of people struggle with that, managing people that are further along in their career, and and that was that was huge. So that that was really helpful in what's shaping me. And then I I think as, you know, as I grew up, you know, music, you know, I was always the one leading and and pulling people together for music, whether it was, like, for wedding music or, you know, playing out, you know, publicly. So, that really shaped me as well. And then, of course, as I got into and I was I was gonna go into music, and I I could hear my dad's voice about, you know, engineering and livelihood versus music. And so, through his influence, I actually chose to go to engineering school, be an engineer, and enter the the corporate world. And, but I but I I still have music. And that's one of the things I learned is I'll always have that. But at the end of the day, I'm a I'm a a leader in technology. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. I love that story. Wow. We have, a a little family assistant that works for us. And Bill, she's twenty one years old. Both of her parents are deaf. And I'm kidding you not. This girl operates like a forty year old. But, you know, she's had to. Right? And, so mature. But, yeah, I would imagine that that is I love, though, that creation of the the janitorial, business. Yeah. Bill Tingle
I remember when, one of the things that I I realized early on was I had this, like, creative, innovative mindset. And I can remember, the one of the first jobs my dad gave me as a janitor was and I I probably was twelve. I mean, legal legally, I probably shouldn't have been working, but, you know, I got he he gave me money, and it helped pay for, you know, musical instruments and things. But I remember one of my jobs was to pick up cigarette butts out of the parking lot. And, you know, I was healthy and young and I you know, but I got tired of bending over, like, to pick up these cigarette butts. And so I went home and I invented this cigarette picker upper, and I, you know, I got a, like, a broom handle and and a and a nail. And, you know, my dad came down and was like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm gonna make my job easier. And he just laughed. And he helped me. You know? So we we created this contraption, and, it just it made it easier. And I actually was able to get a lot more done with it faster. And so, you know, it was probably one of the early, like, you know, I got some creative, innovative, like, spark in me, so we'll see where that goes. Lisa Nichols
That is so cool. That is so good. Well, I know that you have a BS. You have a bachelor's in engineering. You also have some graduate work from WashU, which we all, if you're from Saint Louis, wonderful, wonderful university here in Saint Louis. But, you know, what drew you because I think you started as a software engineer. Bill Tingle
Oh. Lisa Nichols
Oh, and, Bill, this is something we may or may not have talked about, but you started at McDonnell Douglas in the Mitchell Systems. Bill Tingle
Same time. Probably the same year that you started. Lisa Nichols
The same year? Nineteen eighty five? I remember Bill Tingle
I remember seeing that. I thought, oh my gosh. We were at McDonald Douglas at about the same time. Lisa Nichols
And about the same length of time because I left there I left there about eighty nine and went into corporate sales for another Fortune five hundred company. But, Greg was there as well. He was a software engineer. And then I was an accountant. I was internal audit and cost accounting and that sort of thing. But, what a great place to start, though. Right, Bill? Bill Tingle
Oh, yeah. You know, I if I think back about that start, I learned so much about quality software rigor. And, you know, back then, it everything had to be done according to a standard and and probably overkill for most commercial applications. But, you know, we we were writing software for cruise missiles, and the cruise missile has to hit the target. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Bill Tingle
And the one of the engineering challenges, without getting too technical, was that it was real time software. And so when you think of, like, programs, there's all these little programs that run to take data from the atmosphere and to control the and to control the wings and the surfaces and, you know, how high you are and such. And every little program has to run within certain amount of time. So, like, one little program had to run-in a hundred milliseconds. And I really learned about constraints, limitations, precisions, and and really innovation, how to make it work within the constraints. I kinda joke to people I was a rocket scientist, and I I didn't I didn't write the math, but I but I programmed the Lisa Nichols
math. Right. Bill Tingle
But I learned a lot about the importance of the details and testing and getting it right, and that was really good. But, I think I think, ultimately, I craved business world. In fact, after a couple years at at McDonnell Douglas, I thought, you know, I'd really like to do on the business side. And, yeah, but I think back then, it was called data processing or it wasn't, you know, it wasn't called IT back then. And I didn't I didn't have the skills. I didn't know COBOL, and and so I I couldn't do that. But I but I started really getting this craving to move into to commercial IT. And so then I started kind of aiming in that direction and heading down that path. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Very good. Very good. Well, you know, you've worked in avionics, missiles, logistics, because you had a twenty plus year illustrious career enterprise, lots of different places. But what is the common thread? Is there a common thread, Bill, that you kinda saw through all of those, that, you know, you've been able to take into every role? Bill Tingle
It's for me, the common thread is anticipating what's coming and wanting to be part of that. And so I think early on, I was always nervous about being in a job where I wouldn't be able to do new things. I would I'd have to do the same thing. And I think I think some people like that. They like the stability of maintaining software or just being in a cycle. But I've I've always in fact, I've had a lot of jobs since my childhood, and I think it's always the curiosity about what can be done next, what's coming. And I think one of my biggest strengths was anticipating what's coming and and looking for ways to enable the business through what's coming. And and, you know, in some cases, you have to look at, is it feasible yet? Yes. Especially especially when I was at enterprise, I was always, you know, number one, trying to make sure I understood the business, understand the customer experience, understand how the business works, how does the business make money, and and then looking at all the technologies that are not just with us, but that are coming, and and how can we increase the value of of what we're doing, increase the and and really address the goals and mission of the company through technology. And so that's sort of the common thread is always looking for that. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Well, that is a critical skill, being able to look around the bend. Right? And, that's where you really move more into strategic role Bill Tingle
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
Than just execution. Right? So having to see that the table well, I know that you spent twenty years at enterprise. What you know, do you have a big one big takeaway? And then I wanna talk about pods. I I wanna spend just a little bit of time on each of those. Yeah. Is there a big takeaway? Bill Tingle
You know, I think probably the biggest takeaway and it it's so simple, but it's also so powerful. And it it's something that that Jack Taylor said. And if if you worked at enterprise or you work you know this, is that take really good care of your customer, take really good care of your employees, and everything takes care of itself. The profits will come. And I think there's so many companies, especially, you know, public companies, they're they're chasing profit. They're there's all this pressure on on the quarterly earnings. And I think one of the things I really enjoyed about enterprise as a privately held company, it was like, let's just do the right things, and everything will take care of itself. And you see that that that's played out for them even until this day. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. You know, I love and I love Jack Taylor and Andy Taylor. I I still quote Andy Taylor on on certain things, but when Greg and I started Technology Partners thirty one years ago, Bill, that was that was our philosophy. We said if we take good care of our people, our people will take care of our customers, and then our success will follow. And it needs to be in that order. Right? It really does. So empowering your people, taking good care of them, and then they're gonna take care of the customer. So I just I love that. Well, you were the CIO at Pods. Was there a transformation that you led the the company through that you're really proud of, or, you know, what were some of your big accomplishments when you were at Pods? Bill Tingle
Yeah. I think I think one of the things is the the the IT culture, I think, would be one, which is it's not a business transformation. It was a culture transformation. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Bill Tingle
So, if it's okay to talk about that, then we can certainly talk about the business. But I think, you know, if you if you don't have an effective culture, it's hard to do anything else. You know, if you've got if you've got people that aren't getting along or they're infighting or you know, because what what was happening and I think this is very, fairly common in in many companies is that everybody cares about what they do. But if they if they are if they don't see how they're aligned around a bigger purpose. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Bill Tingle
There's there there can be finger pointing and infighting and and and, you know, withholding information. And and, you know, that's not just a pod. That that's and and that's really everywhere Depending on where you look, it it can be the team. Absolutely. And so the one of the first things that we did is we said, we are one team. I don't care which area you know, within the IT organization, we are one team. And we even had a couple of guys. They came up with a mantra, one team, one fight. Like and that that became sort of our tagline. And and we went from a place where, quite frankly, a lot of people in the community, the IT professionals, didn't wanna come there. And, you know, because there was, you know, sort of the word on the street. Mhmm. And, you know, in relatively short order, it was a place that everybody was trying to get in. Everybody wanted to Lisa Nichols
come. And Bill Tingle
and we were, you know, we were doing a lot with with we we did a lot with introducing, you know, agile scrum the DevOps. You know, we, we had a brought on Bill Bensing, who was from Saint Louis. He's down in Florida now and just brilliant, brilliant technology professional. And we did some pretty, pretty amazing things there. And then, of course, we we we did a lot. We worked very closely with marketing, you know, around upgrading ecommerce and and then and then really trying to improve the routing system. And, you know, one of the things that would be fun now, if I was still there, was implementing AI. Because with AI and you think of logistics and and and and all the moving parts that go along with, logistics and moving containers around, I think I think there's a a great opportunity there. But with pods, you know, what a what a great company and Mhmm. What they're doing. Brilliant, brilliant business model, and I really enjoyed my time there. And, I was I was fortunate to work there with John Cope, who was a great CEO of Breedleader. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Well, I mean, Bill, it all starts with a culture. There's a reason that Drucker said culture eats strategy for breakfast. Right? It's so important. And, you know, the organization has a culture. Bill Tingle
Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
Organization has its own culture, but I say technology has its culture too. And so as the technology leader, you wanna be able to attract the best and the brightest. Right? So it is it's so important to keep your eye on that ball, I think. So I love that. I love that. Well, you're coaching now. You're coaching other executives. So I would love just to for you to tell me a little bit. You've consulted. You've been a CIO. You've been a an executive. How has that prepared you? I'm sure you've got so many lessons in your tool belt and tools that you've developed. But how's that really, prepared you, Bill, to coach other executives? Bill Tingle
Yeah. There's so many experiences there to bring to the table. Right? And the thing the thing that I really enjoy right now is I bring a lot of experiences, a lot of, scars, you know, a lot of, setbacks and and learning that I can bring to each person, combined with I've studied, like, the science of coaching. And so, you know, I realized actually, I realized in two thousand three that I want that I would wanna be a coach someday. Kinda like when I was a little kid, I wanted to be a guitar player. Yeah. When I I hired my first coach in two thousand three and and studied, you know, sort of the discourse. And then so combining that with the experience, I'm really able to bring together the the the science of coaching, the leadership experience together to help people. And I realized a long time ago that our business skills and our technical skills get us to a certain point. And it's just not common sense for everybody on how to become an executive, to how to operate at that next level. And some people figure it out. Some people get a you know, they're fortunate to have a good mentor inside a company. And I was fortunate to have mentors and and a coach. But to get that help in the area of executive communication, relationship development, emotional intelligence, and we do a lot not just with emotions, but with moods. They're related, but they're they're different. And bringing those together, helping people really rise to that next level. So I think people that I work with that can combine what we're teaching and how we're helping with their own internal mentoring, if they get it, is is really a lot of jet fuel to help them move quickly up up the ranks. Lisa Nichols
Oh, I love that. Jet fuel. I love that. Well, I you know what I love that you just said? You said you hired a coach. Bill Tingle
Oh, yeah. Lisa Nichols
I think you said in two thousand three. Bill Tingle
Yeah. How Lisa Nichols
did you how did you see that help you gain executive presence and and move to that executive, you know, position that you were in? I mean, what were some of the things that you learned, Bill? Bill Tingle
Yeah. Absolutely. And I was I was exposed to, sort of the the neuroscience of coaching and the biology of cognition and linguistics early on. It was actually it wasn't sort of a traditional coaching program. It was very targeted to the the aspects of being human. And so I learned I learned a lot about, how people perceive, what the concerns of people are. I learned a lot about emotions. I learned a lot about how we use language. And this is an area that that I do a lot with. And that if if you think, Lisa, about what we do every day as a leader, if you think about what do you do all day? Well, there's one thing that you do you and I would do all day, and that is we talk. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Bill Tingle
And and we don't we don't just talk. We we use language to get things done. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Bill Tingle
So in our program, we talk about language constructs like making requests, and there's a certain way to make a complete effective request, which we call delegation. And then in response to a request, we would hope that the a person is going to respond to make a commitment or a promise. And what we teach people and work with people on is how to make a complete, effective request and get a complete, effective commitment to that. And then there's an agreement and a shared understanding so that the two people can move forward in a healthy way without micromanagement, without, you know, lots of follow-up. And what I've just these two constructs of of requesting and committing, which which I have learned from my coach sounds so simple, but people can be so sloppy with it. Lisa Nichols
And and Bill Tingle
we when we get rigorous with that, we get trust goes up. The the amount of rework goes down. The amount of follow-up goes down, and we become so much more our our relations gets better, our our performance gets better, our results get better. And, again, it sounds so simple, but when we really name it and and work together on that, life at work and and at home even can get much better. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That's so good. Well, so many of challenges. Right? I I would say that so many of the challenges that we experienced, Phil, is because there was poor communication. Bill Tingle
Right. Lisa Nichols
That there was either, you know, not understanding or the language that we were using just was not clear. There was not clarity. And so I love it. Now is this whole I'm just gonna ask you. Is this whole mode of coaching that you're talking about, the ontological? Bill Tingle
Yes. Yes. Lisa Nichols
Yes. That's what it's called, the ontological, in case our listeners wanna go and and study that a little bit more. Well, can can I ask you this question? Because you've coached a lot of people. What is a common blind spot? Because we all have them. Right? And sometimes, it's just it's a blind spot, and it's called a blind spot for a reason because we're blind to it many times. Right? Bill Tingle
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
But what is a common blind spot that you have seen in leaders that, that, you know, maybe that you've helped maybe overcome or to even see to know how to move past? Bill Tingle
Yeah. I think I think one is people people assume what other people think and want, and they also and one of the assumptions they make are other people's intentions. And so when and I think it's it's sort of human nature to assume somebody's intentions. But I see so much harm that happens from that. I had a leader, c CEO of my eye doctor, Sue Downs. She used to have on the top of her agenda, assume the best intentions. And I love that because we even though we all want the same thing, peep humans can sometimes, say things and do things for with good intentions, but people are could be assuming not the not good intentions. And so one of the big things that I help people with is to seek a shared understanding. There's if there's just two words that I could leave anybody with, it's make sure you have a shared understanding because people will say in business, okay, good, we're aligned. It's like, are you sure you're aligned? And what does that mean? Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. You Bill Tingle
know, in in the world we live in, everybody is in a hurry. It's it's go, go, go, go. We're urgent. We got we got to move quick. And getting a shared understanding can take time. It means we have to sit down, we have to talk. We have to go back and forth and make sure our interpretations are consistent. And then we can say we have a shared understanding. And I think that that would be, one of the blind spots, blind spots, assuming that you have a shared understanding when you don't. Because if you don't, there's gonna be rework. Lisa Nichols
Yes. There Bill Tingle
can there can be waste. And so I think that's a bit that's an important thing. Lisa Nichols
That is so good. That is a golden nugget nugget right there, the shared understanding. And to your point, it takes time. So but you may be spending more time on the front end of that bill, but in the long run, the totality of the picture, you're gonna save time. Yeah. If you're and trust, like you said, goes up. And I think about I think about Covey that says you lead at the speed of trust. Right? So as trust goes up, you're gonna lead faster. But how do you build that? That is so good. Well, let me ask you this. You compare coding to to leadership sometimes. You know? They require clear, specific, concise language. Yeah. And we just kinda talked about that. You know? Is there anything else that you wanna say on that? Bill Tingle
Well, one thing that I would say is, I don't think most people understand the power of language, and and it and we can make it simple. You know, there's only like, if I followed you around all day, Lisa, and I said, what what are the different structures that Lisa uses as a leader? Well, she makes declarations. We're gonna go here. We're gonna do that. I'm gonna write a book. We're gonna go into this market. We're gonna start selling this. And language is generative. It's creative. You know, if you think in the beginning was the word and the word, it's like everything is created with the word and we create everything with language. And so, I think that's one of the things. And then we we make judgments with language. We make assessments. And a lot of times, people make judgments and assessments, but there's no evidence, there's no grounding. And so one of the other things we teach is grounding whatever assessment you make with with assertions, with evidence so that we can believe that we have the truth as good as we know it. And so and I've just in business, so many people make ungrounded assessments, and it can break trust. It can cause problems. And so there's there's there's other things, but those are the two I would highlight. Lisa Nichols
Oh, that's so good. Well, I've got so many more questions for you, Bill. But we need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back with Bill Tingle on the Something Extra podcast. AD
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Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with my friend, Bill Tingle. So, Bill, what what I hear, the buzzword that is on everybody's lips today is AI. Bill Tingle
Yes. Lisa Nichols
So tell me what you think about AI. You already said that with with pods. I mean, it'd be awesome to see how AI is gonna help in Bill Tingle
the Lisa Nichols
logistics. You know, tell me what you think about it, and then tell me what skills you think AI is not going to replace. Because I know that that is top of mind for ready two. You know, they're thinking, oh my goodness. AI is gonna take my job. And the reality is, the hard truth is, it is gonna take some jobs. But don't be scared of that. You just need to reskill to do something different. Right? But tell me your philosophy on AI. Bill Tingle
You know, I I in many ways, I think of AI as yet another technology. You know, if you think about it, you know, I remember go let's go back to the PC and and, you know, someone when the PC came out, some people used it to, store their recipes, their their family photos. You know, they would maybe keep lists of things. And other people used PCs for accounting and and automating things, controlling devices. And so the the PC was it was revolutionary in terms of what it the capabilities. And, though, and then fast forward to today with with AI and you think about how we're using mathematics and algorithms and what it can do in terms of giving people more capacity, giving people more more power so that we can do other things and and really flourish even more. And so I think I remember years ago when I worked at Rockwell International, this is a long time ago, they had, they had facilities where there was no humans. It was all robots. And so this phenomenon of technology taking jobs has been around for a long time. I I think there's a lot more hype with it now, but I also think there's there's a lot of reality. What's what's I think is amazing, Lisa, is the amount of capacity it gives us, because we're always wanting more capacity. If you think about the science of time management, it's about getting more capacity. And so for me, I think about as a solopreneur, you know, Corinne and my wife and I, we work together. You know, we have a few people sort of help out. But the amount that we get done with AI today, it's incredible. I mean, I can what I can get done in less than a half an hour with AI, and I didn't I still have a job. It's just that AI's gave given me more capacity. And so I think my, and and we were using forms of it back in enterprise. I mean, we did, like, amazing high value things with it back then. And so I see it as a tool, and I see it as an enabler. And I think just like other technology that comes before, I think we all should be inspired to learn what we need to learn and state, like, ride the wave so we can flourish with it, not fear it. And so that's that's definitely a philosophy that I have. And they're just the one thing, I was looking at some data the other day, and not every company is AI centric. Right? Not every company is a is a software platform, but we're getting close to seeing a one person billion dollar company. Imagine one person writing AI software generating one billion dollars. We're we're approaching that. There's a list of the top AI centric company. I forget how many are on the list, but the average team size is twenty seven people. The average revenue, for a thirty like, let's take Telegram, the software company. There's thirty employees. They're generating a billion dollars a year, and the average revenue per employee is two point five million. And there will always be larger corporations where that doesn't apply. But what that signals to me is the power of it and how we all need to be aware of that power. And even if we're working in a major corporation, how do we work together to get more capacity to keep learning, to keep growing, to keep innovating? And if we don't fear it, but we embrace it and grow with it, I mean, it it can be a lot of fun. And we can have a lot of fun in this time we have to have a career. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Oh my goodness. I loved everything you said. Here's the word that I kept hearing. So listeners, more capacity. Capacity. And who does not want more time in their day? Mhmm. Right? Bill, I mean, I hear that from people all the time. Oh my goodness. You know, I just need more time. Well, this is a way that you can get more time. The other thing I love, and I'm thinking it's a great book title for you. Bill Tingle
Can I use it? Lisa Nichols
Flourish, not fear. Bill Tingle
Floor is Lisa Nichols
not fear. Yeah. Or floor is over fear. You know? You could say, I'm just giving you an idea of flourish line fear. You know? Flourish over fear. So Oh. There you go. There you go. Get to work. Get to work, Bill. Thank thank you for that. Bill Tingle
Thank you for that gift. Lisa Nichols
I'm just gonna tell our listeners. I'm just gonna encourage our listeners. I don't wanna tell. I want to encourage them. Speaking of the art of language, Bill, like, puts awesome stuff out on LinkedIn. Go follow him. I love reading your your post and your blogs and that that you put out there, Bill. But you and your wife, you you you call yourself digital nomads, and I love this. Your your lifestyle, you kinda travel around different places, and we were so blessed to have you. Are you in Saint Louis right now? Yes. Or where you are. Okay. Because, in August, you were in Saint Louis, and you and I were, on a panel together. But, tell me what has this taught you about leadership, Bill? Bill Tingle
Oh, boy. So much. I mean, it's been two months now, and it's been it's been way more fulfilling and enjoyable in two months than I thought it was gonna be. And the the only downside is I don't I can't be guaranteeing the kind of office that I want. You know, at home, I had a very comfortable office. But it it's taught me a lot about probably probably the first thing that comes to mind, Lisa, is is asking for help. You know, I think we so many of us, we grew up in a culture where we we need to be independent. It's not okay to ask for help or we don't or or we're scolded for asking for help. You know? You think about school. You know? Do your work. You know? Get your work done. You know? Don't look on Susie's paper or you know? And what was clearly cheating is not acceptable. But but asking for help because, you know, we're going into a new area. We're planning. Know, we're asking people for, you know, I'm you know, asking for directions, asking for and so I've learned, you know, to ask more. And if if we don't get help, we're not gonna we're we're not gonna flourish as more. We're not gonna have as as good of a life. You know, I used to I remember watching a a video years ago, and and Jack Welch was talking about the help that he gets. And and I think that was one of the first times I'm like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I need to you know? Everybody's helping each other and make sure you ask. So that that was a big thing. I think planning, you know, really planning. Because if you're if you're leaving a home and you everything you have is in your car Mhmm. And you're not going back for a while, you know, making sure you've really thought things through and planning. And I tell you what, my wife, Karina, she's a masterful project manager. Like like, she had every even from the point of of selling things to storing, and and we gave a lot of stuff away. So Mhmm. A great opportunity to get and she had, like, you know, a lot of things people wanted to have. Like, we just gave so much away, which was that was really that felt really nice to help other people in that regard. But just the planning and and making sure everything and the last thing I would say is the thing that we both enjoy the most is when we live in a home for a long time, same city, driving the same place, everything becomes automatic. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Bill Tingle
When you go into a new area, you have to be very aware, conscious, you're thinking. You're you're using your brain a lot more. And as, you know, I've always thought as as I age, I I wanna use my brain more and more, not less and less. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. And Bill Tingle
so I think those are some things that that come to mind. Lisa Nichols
That is so good. I never thought about that before. But when you are in one place, you're you're a little bit on autopilot sometimes. And sometimes we need to take ourself off of autopilot. Right, Bill? I love it because you probably have new creative ideas and all sorts of things. Goodness gracious. Well, I do wanna talk about this because I know this is super, super important to you, and it is to me as well. You know, that I grew up music. People thought I would major in music. I ended up like you. It's like, okay. Well, I'm not sure. You know, do I wanna be a starving artist, or do I want to be able to pay my bills? So I win accounting. But, you played the guitar since you were seven. Yeah. How has that and I know that it shaped you in so many ways with creativity and discipline and the discipline of practice, but tell me a little bit more about that. Bill Tingle
Thank you for the for the opportunity to talk about it because it is, you know, it is core to my being, and I think music's core to everybody's being. But I was fortunate when I was seven that my mom asked if I wanted to take guitar lessons, and she asked all the I have, two brothers. She she asked each of us, and I was the only one that said yes. And I I said yes quite frankly and honestly because I wanted to please her because I thought she wanted me to play. And and but but, secondly, my grandfather played. Like, my grandfather would play and sing on the radio. In fact, he would sing country western music, and he would yodel. And and I loved hearing because he had this big voice. I loved hearing it. So I was really inspired. But I think the first thing that I learned was not quitting. Not quitting because there were so many times I wanted to quit, you know, when things got tough or I didn't feel like it. And so I think I learned to not quit. I learned to to do it when I don't feel like it. You know, to me, that that's a big part of discipline is doing something when you don't feel like it. And we all have that. I don't feel like going to the gym. I don't feel like doing this. And then I think the the last thing I would throw in is the the discipline of staying with something until it's it's complete. And and that that that can lead to, like, an extreme of perfectionism. But, like, breaking things down and working on each part so that it is it is complete and successful, and that applies to so much in life as far as that goes. Lisa Nichols
Right. Well, I also just think about the fundamentals the fundamentals of music. Right? Bill, I'm thinking you're learning to play piano. You play scales Bill Tingle
Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
Over and over and over, which can become monotonous. Bill Tingle
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
Right? But it's that laying that good foundation. When you and I, we had something really fun, in August with the HMGCIO summit, and you were on the panel. And we talked about the relationship between technology, IT, and music. And there were so many correlations Bill Tingle
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
That we talked about. Bill Tingle
Yeah. There is. I mean, there's there's a lot of correlations with with math, which we won't get into here. But if you if you think about all of the technology computers that are used in the music world, you know, it's because they're both math based. If you think about frequency and amplitude of volume and, and and so it's there's there's that correlation. But I learned early, early on how to coordinate with other people. So I was I was in my well, even even when I was, like, eight, my music teacher brought guitarists together, and we would practice improvising, you know, the best we could at the age of eight. And and I remember that day, the first time I did it, I thought this is really cool. Like, we're listening to each other, and that person just did this, and and so now I'm gonna do this. And, like, really listening to each other and and coordinating and and trying to create something as a group, and everybody's contributing. I mean, that I was exposed to that at the age of eight for early on. And I I I think the other thing that comes to mind, which was just a cool moment. I don't think I mentioned this at the at the summit. When I was in high school, I had a really good jazz instructor, and, he mentored me in in as in leadership and in music. And I I won Allstate jazz guitar player my junior and senior year, and then and I was offered a scholarship, and and that went on to my dad and I talking about music versus engineering, which is a lot Lisa Nichols
of people. Bill Tingle
But but I remember we we got our our high school jazz band got to warm up for Count Basie. And if people don't know who Count Basie is, he's he's he's a legend. You can look him up. And he's just known for, like, a master of big band. And my jazz instructor said, hey, Bill. I want you to go in the locker room, and I want you to grab a a cord sitting on the table. And so I went in there. I'm looking around. I can't see it. And and all of a sudden, I realized Count Basie's right in front of me sitting down, and it's just him and me. And I I was so nervous, I couldn't talk, and he said he just looked at me. He goes, you wanna know something? I said, yeah. Of course, I wanna know something. He said, the most important thing in music is the rests. And for those of you that don't know music, that's silence. The rests in music is silence. And that taught me so much about life in terms of, like, when I play, you don't need to play all the time. The spaces, it's just like in a painting. The white space is what gives the art what it is. And when we're communicating, the silence and listening, and we don't have to be talking nonstop, and uncomfortable pauses can become comfortable. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Bill Tingle
And I think that was really helpful in terms of just, like, really listening and and and appreciating what everybody else is doing. Lisa Nichols
That is yeah. I've never heard that either. But I'm just thinking I just spoke yesterday to a group of people about the rhythms and seasons in our life and how important rest is for a leader. Right? And so wow. I don't know. There may be another book in there. Oh my goodness. Well, I I wanna ask you just real quickly. And, I've got a few more questions, and then we'll talk about something extra. With your coaching, how do you is there, like, a someone that you coach where you just saw, like, a light bulb moment and the breakthrough? How did that make you feel? I can only surmise how that would make you feel. Just, have you seen, like, some how and how do you measure the success? How do you know that you're doing your job? Bill Tingle
Yeah. That's you know, I I got goosebumps, but just as you were saying that, because I brought back some memories already. And that's it's really why I do what I do. You know? I think I think I I certainly could have gone done other things after exiting my CIO role to make more money or do you know? But my deep purpose is to help people reach reach levels that they never thought they could. And, you know, one just one example is if if somebody started out with me as an individual contributor and all of a sudden they're a CISO, CISO, and they reach back out to me and they say, thank you, Bill. Mhmm. I had one person that was wanting to get promoted and to to a, like, a VP level. And he sent I got a note one Monday morning that said, Bill, I just wanna thank you. I I came to work, found out I I got a promotion to vice president. I make you know, I got a thirty five percent increase raise. I got equity, and I I couldn't have done without you. And then and then the last one I would share, which it's it's it's one of those that really gave me goosebumps when it happened is I was working with a client, brilliant engineering leader in a pharmaceutical company, and he had, he was came from India, and was seeking to be citizenship in in the in the country. And he was living with this fear of losing his job, but he was doing really well. But this there was this fear of losing his job, and so it was blocking him from speaking up and taking chances. And I finally said, well, I I I thought you had your green card. He said, yeah. I I got it last month. And he was so gripped in the habitual paradigm of not having his green card and living in this fear that when he got the green card, it didn't it didn't flip a switch for him. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Bill Tingle
And he and I sat there. I kid you not. It it felt like ten minutes in silence. And and he just had this major breakthrough. And it sounds, like, so simple. Like, why wouldn't like like, but we just don't realize how gripped we can be in our subconscious with our emotions and our our stories. And and for me, that that always stands out as something that I got to be a part of that, and he's just thriving now. Just such a Lisa Nichols
Oh, that is. Yeah. I mean, that is your why. That's your why, Bill. So, well, okay. So do you have a book? What do you read? How do you grow yourself? Is there a book or a podcast besides something extra that you listen to that really Bill Tingle
Yeah. Oh, I do. I mean, I'm always I'm always listening. I'm always reading, and it's the, and I can't wait to your read your book. So that's my plug for your book, something extra, and I'm so excited. And I I heard that there's a big shipment arriving someplace today. So Lisa Nichols
There is. Bill Tingle
That is really exciting. I'm so happy for you. Lisa Nichols
Very exciting. Bill Tingle
Yeah. I'm so excited for you. Every every time I every meeting, somebody's recommending a book, so I'm always I'm always reading. I do I do focus on, the spiritual. And so for me, that's that's really important. And then I also I also focus on books that help me do what I do. And I read a lot of books on mindset because everything begins with mindset. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Bill Tingle
And I don't I don't think people realize how stuck they are and how much resistance they have to to taking the actions that they know will help them because their mindset is then stuck. So I'm I'm sort of reading a lot in that space. Lisa Nichols
Is there one particular book that you would tell our listeners go get? Bill Tingle
Yeah. The one book the one book that especially if you're in leadership and the the the cool thing about this is this book has material that was at one time, you couldn't find it. And it's in the ontological designs, the ontological space, but it's written in a very accessible way. And it's it's it's written by two people I would call friends that are pioneers in the space. It's co coauthored one the one person is Chalmers Brothers, which is a cool name, c h a l m e r s, Chalmers Brothers. And then a very good friend of mine, Vinay Kumar, they co wrote it. And the book is called Language and the Pursuit of Leadership Excellence. And I ask all my clients to get a copy. And it awesome. And and, you know, one of the things it does is that we become better observers of ourselves as leaders. And I think when people become better observers of themselves, they become better leaders. Lisa Nichols
Oh, no doubt. No doubt. I another word for that is self awareness. Bill Tingle
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Lisa Nichols
Really? Yes. But Bill Tingle
I I heard a I heard a statement this morning. I still have a coach, and my coach was talking this morning about knowledge plus understanding equals self awareness. Mhmm. That's good. Equals awareness. Yeah. Like, we don't know we don't know what we don't know until we learn it, and then we do it. And then we become observers of how we're doing it. Lisa Nichols
So good. Well, Bill, this is called something extra. What do you believe is this something extra that every leader needs? Bill Tingle
I think every leader needs to care about each person's dreams. And if it's okay to tell just a quick story Lisa Nichols
Love it. Bill Tingle
One of the things that I that I've done in the past, and I I did it at pods, is I began by telling my story and what my dreams were. And then at every all hands meeting, anybody could volunteer to tell their story. And I did it myself first to just set an example and to be known and to be known. And each, you know, people people started raising their hand. They would tell their story and they would tell their dreams. And at the end of the person telling their story, I would tell everybody, you know, we had maybe a hundred people. I would say we are here to support John's dreams. And if we mess up John at work, we're messing up his dream. And so we need to work together, understand we need to understand each each other, not just what our jobs are and what we do and how we do them and what we need and what a good handoff is and what a shared understanding is. We need to understand each other's dreams, and we're supporting each other. And, Lisa, the coolest thing, I said the word John. John's dream was to have a bee farm and to make honeycomb. He'll sell honey and have children come and teach him about bees. And he left and he that's what he's doing. Lisa Nichols
Oh, I love it. Is he here in Missouri? Because we love honey. Bill Tingle
Yeah. He's in Florida. Lisa Nichols
He's in Florida. Okay. Bill Tingle
Back when we when we that's gonna be part of our digital nomad. We're gonna stop and and see his bees. Lisa Nichols
Yay. Oh, gosh. Wow. So you're a dream maker too. Or the people you you encourage other people to help other people, you know? Bill Tingle
Think about why why do we work? Lisa Nichols
Because we all have dreams. Bill Tingle
Dreams. And Mhmm. Doing our work can be joyful and fun and fulfilling and part of the dream, but but we all have a dream. You know? If you have somebody you know, people say, well, if I won the lottery, I would do this. Well, that's what the dream is. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Bill, oh my goodness. I think I could talk to you for ten hours. But, I just I know that this is gonna help our listeners. Thank you so so much for making the time to be on the show today. And, yeah, I just appreciate your friendship for a long time now. Bill Tingle
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
We've been friends. Bill Tingle
Likewise, Lisa. And I just wanna thank you, and and I the one thing I would say is, I really admire and appreciate and respect your your role model as a leader, as a mother, as a wife, a can be a community member. And when I see you and Greg together and what you're both doing as a couple and the road you've been down in your whole life, it's just it's a real treasure to know you two and be called your friend. Lisa Nichols
Aw. Thank you so much. Thank you for that. Well, have a great rest of the day, Bill. Bill Tingle
K. You too. Announcer
Thank you for listening to today's show. Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc two thousand and nineteen. For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit tpi dot co slash podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen.