Leading with Empathy and Agility w/ Michael Smith
Episode Details
Transcript
Discover how a former criminology major and aspiring actor transitioned from a curious subcontractor to a powerhouse executive in the tech industry. Michael Smith, Partner at Fortium Partners, shares his "business-first" philosophy on IT, explaining why technology is most powerful when it is used to create a competitive advantage rather than just being a set of widgets. He dives deep into the high-stakes world of global digital transformations and the hard-won lessons learned from "failing safe" under great mentors.
Guest Links:
Credits: Host: Lisa Nichols, Executive Producer: Jenny Heal, Marketing Support: Landon Burke and Joe Szynkowski, Podcast Engineer: Portside Media
Lisa Nichols
Chromosomes. Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions that tell us who we are at birth. Most people are born with forty six chromosomes, but each year in the United States, about six thousand people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a person with Down syndrome. If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet. They truly have something extra. My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ally. Ally has something extra in every sense of the word. I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she meets. Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the world. While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that defines who you are. Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference in their companies, their families, their communities, and in themselves. If you liked this episode today, please go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a five star rating. Lisa Nichols
Before we get started, I'm excited to share that my book Something Extra is now available. It is rooted in the remarkable spirit of our daughter, Ally, and the heartfelt conversations we've had on the podcast. You'll find wisdom and practical tools to ignite the leader within you and uncover your own something extra. Visit something extra book dot com or find it at Amazon or in all major bookstores to order your copy today. I'm excited to have Michael Smith on the show today. Michael is a partner at Forty and Partners. Michael Smith, welcome to the Something Extra podcast. I'm so glad that we could make this work today. Michael Smith
Yes. Yes. Thank you for, allowing me to be on. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. I know it. We're gonna have fun. You and I originally met through HMG. Michael Smith
Correct. Lisa Nichols
The HMG Summits. And, and then we figured out we knew other people in common. So, yeah. But I'm really happy to have you on today. Now I know that you were born in Saint Louis. Michael Smith
Right, Lisa Nichols
Michael? Right. But then you spent some of your childhood in New Orleans. Michael Smith
Correct. Lisa Nichols
What are some do you have, like, some early memories of growing up that really has helped shaped who you are today and the leader that you are today? Michael Smith
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially growing up in, New Orleans, this would have been back in the, early to mid eighties time frame. So, early seventies into the mid eighties. And so, a family lived down there. And, of course, being down in the deep south, specifically in Louisiana and Mississippi, there is a lot of racial undertones. Mhmm. So the town that we lived in, was just a small town outside of Slidell, Louisiana. It's about forty miles from, New Orleans. There was kind of an unwritten rule in that town that, if you were African American, you were not welcomed in the town after, the sun went down. And so, which, growing up in that type of environment, you you kinda see these these weird differences of of how Parities. And, so there was a community of, African Americans that lived about five, six miles outside of the town. They weren't allowed to live inside the city limits. And so it it really, it really I think impressed upon me and of course my mom was very much opposed to any type of racial discrimination and the subject really, pressed into us that if we ever treated anyone differently or less then, even after she died, she might come back and kill us. Oh, no. So, I mean, she really kinda drilled that in. And so Right. I I definitely saw there was a, a difference. And so I think it really impressed upon my life just, the importance of individuals and irregardless of what their ethnicity is, their race, their gender. Everyone was, created in the image of God and should be respected and and, Valuable. As yeah. And valuable. Yes. And loved, equally. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Oh, that's I love that. I love that. Well and I also read somewhere where you had alligators in your backyard in New Orleans. Was there ever a close encounter with an alligator? Michael Smith
Well, you just kinda knew just to kinda steer clear of them, but, we lived right in our backyard was the edge of the Honey Island swamp. And so the Honey Island swamp is about a twenty five square mile swamp. And, so a part of it, whenever it would flood during hurricane season, of course, we had a pretty large fence that separated our backyard from the swamp. But it wasn't uncommon that during the flooding period, you'd see ten, fifteen alligators sunning themselves just right on the other side of the fence. And, and we could go back into the swamp, and we would whenever it wasn't, all flooded and and Right. You know, it's dry during the dry season. And we'd go, exploring out in the, swamps and everything. But, yeah, you just kinda knew to, you know, keep your distance from the alligators. And if you didn't bother them, they wouldn't bother you. Lisa Nichols
They wouldn't bother you. Oh my goodness. Michael Smith
Very similar to what you might see in the Midwest with deer in your backyard. It wasn't that big of a deer to that big of a deal to have a alligator in your backyard. Lisa Nichols
Right. Right. Right. Right. I I have to ask you because our nephew, married a girl from New Orleans Michael Smith
Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
A couple years ago, so we were there for the wedding. Yeah. And what about crawdad fishing? Did you go crawdadding and, you know, fishing? Yeah. Michael Smith
Oh, yeah. And love, love seafood and and Yes. Jambalaya and gumbo and and all of that. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Yeah. Very Michael Smith
good. But the the one the one downside to, living down, in the swamp area of, Louisiana was that I grew up with arachnophobia. And so there is about every type of spider that you could ever imagine living in the swamp. Lisa Nichols
Oh my goodness. Michael Smith
So, yeah, they would they'd be in your house a lot. So they'd come up through the sinks and and, bathtubs and stuff like that. And it's just, and some of them were, some pretty big ones and and some scary ones. But, Mhmm. Yeah. So, I I I think I I think I really wanna overcome a little bit of that, but you still have some some arachnophobia because of that. Lisa Nichols
I don't blame you. I have that too. I don't know what it what it's called. I know arachnophobia is spiders. I don't know what it's called if you're scared of snakes. That's mine. I'm just like, I don't care. My husband's like, well, that's a king snake. That's a good snake. I'm like, no. No. No snake. No snake is good. I'm just, really very afraid of snakes. Michael Smith
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
But, but I know that and then you moved back to Missouri. And I know that when you started college, you started pursuing banking. Now this is really this is interesting to me, Michael. Yeah. You started pursuing banking, and then I switch I think you switched to theater. Michael Smith
Oh, I did. I did. So, so when I first went to college, I thought I wanted to major in banking and finance. And so the whole reason why is that, when I was in high school, I'd go into the local bank with my, dad and I always thought it was really interesting what the tellers did. And and I guess I should say it was probably even in grade school of what the Teller's did. And, and I thought, well, that would be a neat job to have. So, of course, when I went to college, I knew there was a lot more into banking than that, but, went into, into majoring in banking and finance and absolutely hated it. Hated it. Yeah. I just did not enjoy it at all. And, and so, I was trying to figure out, well, if I'm not gonna do that, what am I gonna do? And so someone had recommended taking a theater class, and they really enjoyed it. Well, I've always enjoyed being on stage and and, singing and acting. And Mhmm. And probably my lifelong dream would have been to be a Broadway actor Mhmm. And be on Broadway and stuff. But, but anyway, I went into those classes and absolutely loved it, really enjoyed it. And for three semesters, I majored in that. And then one morning I woke up and reality kicked in that, the likelihood you're gonna make a living in that, career, which is probably one of the hardest careers to break into, let alone if you break into it to remain successful. Lisa Nichols
Absolutely. Michael Smith
And so, so even though I loved it, I just knew it probably practically wasn't a career. Lisa Nichols
Going to pay the bills? Michael Smith
And and I'm vertically challenged. I'm about five six, five seven. So if you're gonna be a Broadway actor and be a leading man, you generally have to be taller than the leading lady. And, and so I knew I'd probably be relegated to a sidekick character and and that would be fine, but, but it's still, you know, I wasn't interested in, living paycheck to paycheck and Lisa Nichols
Right. Michael Smith
Not even being able to have that because you'll go to hundreds and thousands of auditions, but you may land one opportunity out of all of that. Mhmm. So someone recommended to me, they had, taken an introduction to, criminology, and they thought that I would like that. And, and and I guess I should back up just a little bit. The one major I knew I did not wanna do in college was, computer science. I didn't really decide to do that at all. And, and so I, yeah. And I think it was just the, when I look at the individuals that would, that were majoring in computer science, they were very highly introverted individuals. They had long hair, long beards. They like to work in rooms with no windows, and they would rather talk to machines than people. And so, I'm a Lisa Nichols
And that was not you. Michael Smith
Yeah. I'm a people person. I like sunshine, so I'd rather work someplace with windows. And, and so, so anyway, I I the person had told me about, going into criminology. I took that class and and, again, absolutely loved it. And, and that's what I ended up majoring in was, majoring in criminology with an emphasis in criminal profiling and a minor in communications. And, and so I was actually on my way to the FBI. Mhmm. I interviewed with them and, and all that went well. But I didn't realize that, if you're gonna go and work for the FBI or any type of federal agency, you either have to have, prior military experience or three years of civilian work experience before you can ever even apply. And the reason why is because, of course, they require a background check. And to the United States government, you don't exist as an individual until you filed your own tax returns. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Oh, wow. Michael Smith
So they told me to go ahead and get a job and and in three years they were gonna have a pretty large mass exodus of agents that were gonna be retiring so they thought it was pretty good timing. So now I had to find a job and ironically, ended up working at a bank. And, and they had a AS four hundred system, and with an OS two operating system. And, this administrator would drive in, multiple, like, two and a half hours from Wichita, Kansas to work on, an issue that would take them about an hour, and then they'd have to drive all the way back. And they do this six or seven times a year. And, and this was before the remote diagnostics tools. And so, so one time they were in the office, I said, look. I don't have a clue what you're doing, but maybe it'll save you time if you just call me, walk me through whatever you're wanting to do. And even if it takes us an hour or two, it saves you five hours on the road. And you love the IT. And so we've heard that a couple of times. And and, after doing that, I thought, this is really interesting. I this is not what I expected IT to be. And and I think the same reason I enjoyed criminology, the whole analytical investigative side was similar to IT, right? You're you're trying to discover, figure out a problem or an issue people are having and you're having to kind of troubleshoot and investigate and kind of have have that analytical side of your brain working. And, so I ended up going back to school, and, Microsoft was up and coming at the time. And, one thing led to another, and and I haven't really shared this story much. But when I decided to go back to school, my wife's dad was a, librarian. And he worked at a, he worked at several different places. But during this time, he worked at a vocational technical school and was the librarian there. And they had a computer, repair course that, I decided I was gonna take when I first decided that I thought I might wanna go into IT. And, and and the fact that he worked there, he could get me a fifty percent discount off of the class. Awesome. Class was already pretty inexpensive. It was like thirty five dollars and fifty cents for a semester. And so I was able to get into the class for, like, less than fifteen, sixteen dollars, of which my mother-in-law paid for it. Lisa Nichols
That's crazy, Michael. Michael Smith
And and the lady that was teaching that class, she she saw that I was kinda picking up on this pretty quickly, and and I thought she thought, well, maybe you would enjoy the IT industry. And so then she put me in touch with a couple other people, and and, and as I went back to school, then I started focusing on some certifications with Microsoft. And one thing led to another, and and before you know it, I was, working in the IT industry. And I've been in now for almost thirty years and absolutely can't imagine doing anything other than than IT. So I really enjoy it. Lisa Nichols
A good career for you. Michael Smith
It has. You've done Lisa Nichols
really well. You know, I'm just thinking to myself here, what's the moral of the story? Never say never. Michael Smith
Yeah. Yes. Lisa Nichols
You're like, I don't wanna be in IT. Yeah. That's so funny. And I think you, didn't you start your career with Quillogy? We've known Randy Shilling for forty something. Yeah. Michael Smith
Yeah. Yeah. So originally with BioTech, and then he had changed it to to Quill. So, yeah, that was, that would have been my third job in IT. So I started as a subcontractor with Sprint PCS, which was a it's kind of a shoot off of Sprint corporate, back in the late nineties mid to late nineties. And, and so that was my first job, and then I went and worked for an insurance company, as a network administrator. And, while I was working there, I I really enjoyed the job, but the person I reported to, they were just one of those, just old fashioned leaders that really felt that the way to motivate people was to yell at them and demean them in front of other people. And and I just thought that was awful. Yeah. That was awful. Know and didn't like that. And so, this was in Lawrence, Kansas, University of Kansas. Jayhawks is there in Lawrence, and they were having a job fair. And, and so I called up the university, and I said, well, I didn't go to school there, but would it be okay if I came and participated in the job fair? And they said, sure. It's open to the public. And so I went there and took some, several copies of resumes, and I'd walked around to different booths, and I had one resume left. And I was actually headed out the door, and the last booth right beside the back door was Sciutec. And, and so I dropped my resume off there and talked to, Bruce Rokay, which I don't know if you remember Bruce Rokay or Lisa Nichols
remember Bruce. No. Michael Smith
And the head of HR at that time. And, and so I met with him, talked with him. And so, anyway, and then I left the job fair. Didn't expect to hear anything back. And and two or three days later, I get this call from the general manager of of Sciutec in Kansas City. And, they had mentioned that the HR head of HR had provided the resume, to him. And, and they were looking more for entry level individuals, and and and so I was a little bit more experienced than what they were looking for. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Michael Smith
But they still wanted to have a conversation. And so I went into the office there in Kansas City, interviewed with them. Long story short, they brought me on board as a consultant and, and then was a, about six months later, was promoted to a senior consultant. Eventually, was up to a managing consultant. And then about four years or in or so into working for, Sciutec, and they had changed their name to Qualigy as well. Mhmm. I rebranded that. Then I had an opportunity to take over the Kansas City operations as the general manager. Oh. I did that for about three years, before I I moved on. But, but, no, was I really enjoyed that. I was with them for probably close to seven years. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Michael Smith
Really well and still stay in contact with him. I know he started a couple of other companies like Ford. Lisa Nichols
So much. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He turned the old post office, in Saint Charles into, kind of a WeWork space. And Mhmm. Yeah. He's he's a good guy. I mean, we've we've known him for, a really long year or a long time rather, several years, but a little bit different culture, right, than the one that you came from. You know? Better culture, much better. Right? Michael Smith
Yep. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. I think they were really known for being people centric, people focused, entrepreneurial, and I'm sure that that that fit with your personality much better. Well, I know that you spent nearly a decade at Thermo Fisher Scientific, right, which was I don't know how big now, but, like, at the time about a seventeen billion dollar, company. What were some of the much, much larger. Right? I mean, what were some of those formative leadership lessons that you learned in that, you know, ten year span, Michael, being in this large global enterprise now? Michael Smith
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I I learned a tremendous amount, not only from the leadership there at the company, but the fact that they were a global organization. Yes. So I had teams that I managed in North and South America, Europe, and Asia. And so to be able to be opened up to the entire world. Right? Because, I mean, I grew up in a small town in Louisiana, moved to a small town in Missouri. Went to college in Missouri, moved to Kansas, after college. I met my wife in college, and we got married, right after college and lived in Kansas. And so, I had traveled to some states and things like that, but not a lot. And so, so, yeah, the opportunity to be able to travel the world and meet all kinds of different people from different cultures and different nations was just very, enlightening and very eye opening and, and and and even more so, even that much more appreciative of the fact that we live in the United States and, and the freedoms that we have because not every Not every country has that. Lisa Nichols
And That's right. Michael Smith
So, so learned a lot, about just from a from a global perspective. But then, the CIO for Thermo Fisher, her name was Ina Kamens. And, I reported to her and she, became my mentor. And, and so, I worked with closely with her for a number of years at Thermo Fisher. And and, the first opportunity that I had to be my own CIO, after I had left Thermo Fisher, she was, the individual that had provided me a recommendation, to the company that hired me and stuff. And so, yeah, it was it's, really yeah. I can't thank Thermo Fisher enough for just the opportunity and the experience that I gained. I worked in the data. And, Lisa Nichols
so When you were when you were a CIO, when you left there, is that when you went to American Academy? Michael Smith
Yep. Lisa Nichols
Yep. Family positions? Okay. Yeah. Michael Smith
So I I played the role of, like, a segment CIO at, for sure where there was over one of the one of their four operating groups called the specialty diagnostics group, and it had three had six divisions in there. And, and I reported to the global CIO, which was Ina Kamens and stuff. But, yeah, becoming the the CIO, the top CIO, for a company for the first time was with the American Academy of Family Physicians. Lisa Nichols
And so yeah. Yeah. I've been Michael Smith
for about six and a half years and really led a full end to end, not only digital, but operational transformation, for that, company. So, that was that was really rewarding and a lot of fun. Mhmm. Ended up winning the CIO one hundred award, while I was there at the AFP for the the technology that we had implemented and just the leadership there. And then we were voted, one of the top one hundred companies to work for in IT. That's terrific. And so That's terrific. There was just a lot of, again, professionally rewarding and and a lot of fun and a challenge. Lisa Nichols
Mhmm. Right. Yeah. Those awards are really important, Michael, because, like, for the top places to work in IT, one of the things that we're already always wrestling with, right, is the attraction. Michael Smith
Yeah. Lisa Nichols
Of the talent. And people want to work for those type firms. So those are great, those are great things to have. Do you I know that you did lead mergers, acquisitions, major transformations. Is there one integration story that really stands out to you, Michael, that was just incredibly rewarding or maybe challenging? Michael Smith
Yeah. It'd probably be more the challenging side. And this was one of the things that, you know, as as a leader, you always want to be successful in what you do. Right? And so we were, implementing SAP, for one of the business units that we're going to be that had recently been acquired, and they were brought on board, and we were gonna implement SAP and bring them into the fold. And it was just an incredibly challenging, project. And I remember being on a call with, the global CIO at the time and the president of that particular company. And, Ina was really recommending we need to put a pause on this project and that we need to kind of regroup and kinda make sure we've we've got full engagement from the stakeholders because it was just some of that was just kind of, falling by the wayside. And being a young leader, I thought, no. I think if we can just keep pushing through on this, we're gonna be successful. And so, so she she went ahead and and allowed me to go ahead and keep pushing that project forward. Mhmm. And, worst mistake that could have ever been made. And six months later, we're pausing the project. And and it created just a we we eventually got across the finish line, but it took a lot longer than what we originally thought. But it was just a lesson learned that, individuals that have, been in those situations before and are providing wisdom and, advice of you know, if they're if they're recommending to do something, then at least hear that out. Lisa Nichols
Really consider it. Michael Smith
Battle scars from being in those situations before. And I think if we would have paused the project six months earlier, per the recommendation of the global CIO, not only would the project, have been completed even sooner. Right? It just would have not put a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Right? And Mhmm. And trying to prolong, an effort that was just not going to be successful until you paused it and reset everybody's expectations. That was a big lessons learned. Yeah. Lisa Nichols
Well and I'm just thinking about Ina. Yeah. You know, she was the type of leader that said, I really do believe we need to pause this, but she did empower you to go ahead, right, with what you thought. So Michael Smith
Yep. Lisa Nichols
And sometimes that's why I Michael Smith
think she would have Yeah. I don't think she would have ever put me in a situation where, it would have been career ending. I think she would have probably jumped in and then prevented that, but I think she also knew that the best way to learn is to fail. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Yes. Michael Smith
But she had created an environment where we could fail, safely than if we were, you know, just out there on our own or if she had thrown us out to the wolves and stuff. So yeah. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. It's so it's so, so critical to have those environments because, really, I've I've thought about that a lot. You know, you've got really, without innovation, even if you're doing things and executing excellently, it you you stagnate. Right? Michael Smith
Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
But then the opposite can happen. You got innovation without executing with excellence. There's chaos. Yep. But you've got to continue as an organization to innovate, and you cannot do that if you're not allowed to safely try things and experiment. Right? Michael Smith
Yep. Yep. Lisa Nichols
Well, now you're a partner at Fordium. So what drew you to Fordium? And I'd love for you to tell I mean, I know about Fordium. And in fact, what I mean, I'm just trying to think. Oh, Burke Autry. Michael Smith
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Burke Autry. Lisa Nichols
Yes. And we had an office in Dallas for six years. I know Burke, but Okay. Tell tell our listeners about Fortium if they're not familiar. Michael Smith
Yeah. Yeah. So Fortium is the largest technology leadership as a service firm in the country. So they their whole focus is providing seasoned, experienced executives that have played the roles of CIO, CTO, and CSO executives in various different companies and providing those resources on both a fractional and interim basis. Mhmm. So for some of the large clients within Fortium, we may be brought in when a CIO, CTO, or CSO exits the company, either by their choice or being asked to leave. Right. We would come in and fill that gap and play that role on a full time basis while the company is then looking for whoever the permanent person would be. Mhmm. And and we'll help vet candidates out. We're not a search firm. We're not anything like that, but we'll work with a lot of different recruiting firms. But we'll also help with the interview process and and make sure that whoever is being hired, fits within the culture of that company because we've been You've been there. Yeah. Right. And, and for more smaller or midsize companies, we'll provide that same leadership on a fractional basis. So it may be a company that now has suddenly grown and they've realized they need a technology leader. And so then, they'll bring in Fortium. And then our fastest growing area is with private equity. And so private equity firms will then bring us in to manage their portfolio of businesses from a technology perspective, or they'll, use our expertise in the due diligence from a technology perspective or even the post, acquisition integration and strategy of how to bring this particular company into their technology footprint, the rest of their portfolio. So, so, yeah, I I met forty m several years ago, and we'd crossed paths. And I had, spoke with them and and had an opportunity to come on as a partner then, and it was in, probably about four years into my role at American Academy of Family Physicians. And, and I had really worked with the the board and the leadership team at the AFP to really buy into the vision of what I had recommended to them from a technology strategy. And they just didn't feel right that before we were done, I was gonna jump ship. With Lisa Nichols
a jump. Yeah. Michael Smith
I I said, look. It just doesn't sound right. And so, so anyway, we parted ways. And, and so toward the, end of the AFP engagement, we crossed paths again. And, and it just happened to just be at a time where, we somehow connected again both on LinkedIn, but also in just in a human connection. And and, we started having discussions again, and I thought, well, yeah, I think the time is right. And so I jumped on as a partner with them, and four d m has now been in business for almost twelve years. Like you say, they're headquartered in in Dallas or Plano, Texas is where they're headquartered. Burke Archery is the primary founder. There's a couple of founders, but he was the primary one. And many of those individuals came from a a previous company called Tatum Consulting. Lisa Nichols
Yes. And Michael Smith
then and then they, they had left and then started Fortium. And, and Fortium has continued to grow, double digit growth, year over year and and take on a lot of different, opportunities and clients. And now, there's about a hundred and sixty of me's, in the company across the United States. And so I'm I'm in what's called the south central region, which would be, the the center part of that region is Dallas, of course, but then it goes up through, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, that area there. So so me being based in Kansas City, I'm the only partner for Fortium in Kansas City. Lisa Nichols
In Kansas City? Michael Smith
So I'm, working with companies in Kansas City, have, talked to a number of different companies in Saint Louis, Omaha, of where they might need that fractional technology leadership. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. And if you are a CIO out there or CTO out there that's in in between or Yep. Trying to figure out what's next for you, it may be it may be something to look at. And I remember at the time, when I first met Burke, I mean, what happens sometimes is an interim will go in because I remember Fossil was using an interim, at the time, and then that person ends up becoming the CIO, you know, the permanent CIO on some occasions. Right? So Yeah. Michael Smith
Yeah. I it's not really their their model to do that, but, yeah, it has happened. Lisa Nichols
But it's happened. Right. Right. Michael Smith
So yeah. Lisa Nichols
Oh my goodness, Michael. I've got so many more questions for you, but we need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back on the Something Extra podcast with Michael Smith. AD
Hey there. In a challenging business climate like this, savvy leaders look to technology to find an edge. This can mean the difference between staying ahead of the curve or playing catch up. It's time to collaborate with the highly skilled experts at Technology Partners. Our team of technologists draws upon decades of experience for your project, with each bringing a passion for solving problems and a track record of success, how can we help you overcome your biggest technology challenges? Visit technology partners dot net to book a free consultation with one of our leaders. Lisa Nichols
Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with Michael Smith. We've been having a lot of fun talking about technology leadership. I wanna ask you, Michael, you have often said that your approach to IT is through a business first lens, and I love that. It's business first. It's not technology for technology's sake. Can you speak into that a little bit more? What does that look like in practice? Michael Smith
Yeah. Yeah. I I think a lot of it, at least personally for me, comes from the fact that I didn't start my career in IT. So I started more on the on the business side or outside even though IT is part of the business. Right? It's just kind of a a different perspective on there. And so, when I look at technology, I've never been a gamer. I've never been a, technology widget type person. I've always been drawn to the fact of what technology can do for business operations. Right? So how can it really create a competitive advantage? How can it really drive innovation, productivity, profitability? And so I think that has served me well, growing up in the technology ranks where I'm able to communicate not only with the business leaders, but also with other technology leaders. And and I think the best compliment that I ever received in my career was prior to becoming the general manager at Quillogy. The previous general manager had done a performance review of me, one of the times that, we kind of went through that process, and I was a managing consultant at the time. And he had put into my performance review, he said, Michael has a unique ability to effectively communicate with the boardroom at the same time that he's communicating with the data center. That's awesome. And so where he was really kinda coming across was that he can he can comfortably communicate in the language of executives, right, of of of communicating their language of business operations, but then taking that information and then converting that over to technologists for them to understand what do they actually need to build Mhmm. Related to whatever the organization is trying to do. And and it's and it served me well in my career, and and I've had opportunities where, I've I've like I said, I've ran, not only digital transformations, but operational transformations as well. And so, so no. I I think the best thing that could have ever happened to me, at least in the IT industry, is that I didn't start in IT. Yeah. Yeah. It just gave me a different, perspective of how business operations run. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That's good. Yeah. And I would say that that is definitely a differentiator, for people. You know, it's being able to translate and talk to you know, really understand in the business, being able to communicate. That's one of the things we teach in our technology leadership experience Mhmm. Where we're taking high potentials to that next level is really communicating up and down, and you gotta be able to do that. Right? Yeah. But well, did you use data, as a strategic tell me about data, you know, in any of your strategic transformations that you've done. How important is that, Michael? Michael Smith
Oh, it's, extremely important. From from a technical perspective, I started my career more on the engineering side. And, and, I mentioned earlier in our conversation that one of my first jobs was with Sprint PCS. And, and if you remember much about that company, the prime contractor that was running the IT operations for Sprint PCS was a company called EDS Yes. That was owned by Ross Perot. Yes. And this was actually when Ross Perot was still running, that company. And, and so with EDS, they were kinda building out the nationwide infrastructure network for Sprint PCS. Mhmm. And so coming in as a subcontractor, so EDS had hired the contracting firm that I was working with, and I was a subcontractor at Sprint PCS. You know, I was at the right place at the right time. And and I think it was it was a god thing for me, but it was at the right place at the right time that I had an opportunity to really work with some really brilliant engineers, and, at at just kinda the ground level. And so, so that's kind of where I started my career, but I I slowly moved from engineering into data analytics. And so from a technical perspective, I became a data warehouse developer, a data warehouse, created data warehouses, a database administrator, things like that. And so I really kind of understood the power of what data can do for organizations. Mhmm. Because when you think about, how a lot of companies interact with data, there's still a tremendous number of companies that use Excel. Right? And Excel is a very powerful tool, but it's also a dangerous tool because you can easily manipulate data. Right? You can easily create formulas that are going to, to modify what the end result's going to look like. And so sometimes when people are trying to sell a business case, they're manipulating the data to really tell a story that may not necessarily be true in the world. Lisa Nichols
The truth. Right. Michael Smith
And so I was always a big proponent of creating data warehouses where now you're creating visualization tools that you're not able to manipulate that data. So the information you're pulling from that data warehouse and that visualization tool is what's actually happening in the organization. And so I love to use the saying that there is no concept of bad news. It's just news. Right? Because even bad news could be turned into good news if an organization knows that something bad is happening early on Lisa Nichols
Yes. Michael Smith
They can adjust and change that in their organization and actually turn it into a positive. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. Michael Smith
And so, data analytics plays a critical role in any type of strategic decision making. Because if you have not manipulated that data, the data is telling you the factual truth, whether you like it or not like it. Lisa Nichols
The picture of what's really happening. Michael Smith
Yeah. And and I think most executives, even if the story is not a positive story, they'd rather know that sooner than later to make adjustments Absolutely. Can get it to a position to where they it is telling a good story. And if it is a good story, then how can they continue to, cultivate that to continue to be successful as a company? So Right. Data is key. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. We always say numbers don't lie. Michael Smith
Exactly. Lisa Nichols
The data does not lie. Yep. It's good. Well, let me ask you, this because, you know, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure you have seen this a lot. Where what do you some of those common barriers that you see, Michael, of an organization when they're faced from moving from legacy systems to cloud based ecosystems? I mean, you know, there are some organizations out there that still have legacy systems. Michael Smith
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I I mean, the biggest challenge is the fear of the unknown. Right? So they know what they know. Even and and many times, they know that what they're using is not the right thing, but it's comfortable. They know it's working. You know, they're it they're just afraid of if we change this, what if it starts to stop you know, starts breaking all the time? What if things are not working? What if the data is not correct and all that? And really kind of educating organizations that, you know, the the supportability of legacy systems, the technology that's there, the individuals that are supporting that technology are not always going to be there. And the next generation is not really focusing on that legacy technology. And so you're creating an albatross around your neck that that could potentially bring your company to room Right. If you, do not, you know, understand how to innovate with new technologies. And so, so, yeah, I've I've had to go through a lot of different companies and educate organizations on the fact that, yes, some of these legacy systems are tried and true and very stable and very supportive, but you're just not gonna be able to innovate and grow and expand, on a certain point. And so educating them that, moving to the cloud is scary. Right? But, it's also, an opportunity for you to expand your horizons of what you as an organization are doing and and the capabilities of how you can integrate with other systems. Right? I mean, you you use the example of Salesforce as one of the largest SaaS providers. They integrate with I think now it's up to two hundred and forty thousand different applications is in the Salesforce marketplace. Mhmm. So, I mean, it's it's almost like an unlimited opportunity Right. Expand how you operate your organization by using, some of these cloud based technologies that you would never be able to do that in a legacy, on prem. Lisa Nichols
Environment. Right on prem. Yes. For sure. For sure. Yeah. And it's just so important. And to your point, these legacy systems, the the young kids that are coming up through, you know, are not learning those and, you know, that, oh my goodness. Yeah. We've had some of those. We've had some of them where we had to go find a Fortran person, you know, for, I may and it's just it's it's difficult. It's difficult. You know, Let's talk about people. Let's talk about people, Michael. You know, many people have described you as a people first leader, and, you know, where does that mindset come from? Michael Smith
Again, it goes back early into my career. So, when I worked for Sprint PCS as that subcontractor, again, that my first job in IT, I had I I was always kind of a risk taker, type of individual, and I would always kinda challenge myself. And and I can go all the way back to my junior year in high school where I started to kind of establish an annual goal of what I want to accomplish within the next year. And and my and I still do it to this day. So my goal date is July twenty third every year. So I'll set a new goal and the goal and the whole purpose of that goal is to accomplish that before July twenty second of the next year. Right? And so, doing a dare to myself when I was a subcontractor with Sprint PCS, I reached out to the CIO for Sprint PCS. And, I sent them an email and saying, you know, told them my name and this is what my role was. But I really was wanting to sit down and talk with them about if I wanted to, at some point in my career, become a CIO like themselves Yeah. This Gong. To do. Yeah. What would I need to do Right. To get to that point in my career. And so I sent the email never expecting to get a response. Well, I did get a response, from the CIO, and, he appreciated me reaching out to him. And and so he then had his assistant set up some time for us to meet. Now, originally, our meeting invite was for thirty minutes. And I was gonna go to his office, and we were gonna sit down. And and I had a, you know, pad of paper of all these questions. Lisa Nichols
You had all your questions lined up? Michael Smith
Mhmm. He ended up meeting with me for two hours. That was, I mean, that was life transforming because, not only was I not an employee of Sprint PCS, I wasn't even a contractor. I was a subcontractor. So I was, you know, kind of in the eyes of Sprint PCS. I was less than dirt. Right? I just there was no reason for for this person to invest this time with you. And so, and and I of course, he shared all the different things of what he would recommend I would do in my career if I wanted to ultimately eventually become a CIO. And he recommended, you know, you're gonna need to go back to school. He highly recommended me to get in my MBA. And so I accomplished my MBA back in two thousand eight and, and and a lot of other things that he he recommended. Well, I walked out of that his office thinking if I ever had an opportunity to be a leader, that's the type Lisa Nichols
of leader that you wanna be. Oh. Michael Smith
I wanna be a servant leader. I want to be able to invest in people and give people an opportunity to progress in their career even if those opportunities allow those individuals to exceed what I've accomplished in my career. Mhmm. Because that's what that person did for me. Lisa Nichols
And, Michael Smith
and so Lisa Nichols
That's remarkable. Did you ever go back and tell him what an impression that that made on you? Michael Smith
I I tried to. Lisa Nichols
That, Michael? Michael Smith
Yeah. I tried to. And and, and and I was able to track him down, and I sent him a message on LinkedIn, but I've also heard that he's he's retired. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. And, Michael Smith
he's no longer in so I don't know if he ever received the message or anything. But, yeah, it was, yeah, it definitely was something that, I mean, it it was a pivotal point in my early career of really kind of putting me on the path and a trajectory of of what type of leader I wanna be in the future. Lisa Nichols
Yeah. That I that's such a good point because I do think that we need to figure that out. Right? I mean and the people right in front of us, a lot of times, lets us know. You know, that's what I talk about in my book. I had a really amazing leader. He was not my boss, but he was my boss's boss, Michael Smith
Mhmm. Lisa Nichols
Don Imholz when I was at McDonnell Douglas. Yeah. Yeah. And just the way he treated people and the way that he invested, just like this leader did with you. Yeah. I was like, that's that's the kind of leader I wanna be too. I'm gonna I've got here a couple, you know, Burke Autry. I I read a read a interview that you had done with Burke. It said you know, talking about a forward, thinking perspective on leveraging innovation, and you're talking about that you have been recognized because you were in the CIO one hundred, for strong leadership and mentoring. And, you know, what what advice would you give to a CIO about mentoring? And then what would you I love what you talked about your yellow pad of paper. You went in with your questions. Right? Yeah. I mean, in the technology leadership experience, as you know, that is a huge pillar in our that's one of the four pillars is the mentee mentor. What advice would you give to a mentee and how to be the best mentee? Michael Smith
Yeah. Well, first on the mentor side, just do it. Right? As a leader, there's nothing more rewarding than being able to mentor someone. I always get more out of mentoring an individual than maybe that mentee receives from me. And so I think just do it. Right? As a leader, we're called to be able to lead the next generation of leaders. Right? We want leaders to be good leaders in the future, then they need to be mentored by good leaders. Right? And, and so, so that's that's the first recommendation on the mentor side is if you're not doing that currently, find an opportunity to do that. Mhmm. Mhmm. For the mentee side, I would I just like what I did when I met with that individual, be a sponge. Listen to what, those leaders that have been through those situations in the past. Listen to what they're saying. Right? You may not necessarily agree with everything that they're saying, but take it in. Listen to it. Again, be that sponge to where you're open to see things from a different perspective. Right? Because every generation comes into the workforce from a different perspective. Right? And and they look at individuals that are close to the time of retiring thinking that, you know, I don't understand why they're doing the things that they're doing because I'd never do it that way. Well, that's possible, but times constantly change. Right? Innovation brings new things that, you just have to always be looking at things from a different perspective. And if you're the guarantee, come in with an open mind with a different perspective of looking at the world. And and then, again, take that wisdom and advice that that leader is willing to invest their time into you. Take advantage of that. And Yeah. And it it will reap you significant amount of benefits. And Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Lisa Nichols
Could not could not agree more. Well and then I think about you. You actually took some advice and executed on it. Yes. And I'm sure for a mentor, that's really fulfilling because if you give this advice and they don't ever change or do, do many things the the things that you've suggested, that may that may, say something a little bit different, you know, about that person. But, well, oh my goodness. You've got so many so many other things here to talk about, but, you know, let me just ask you this, Michael, because this is the question I ask every person that's on the podcast. What do you believe is this something extra that every leader needs? Michael Smith
I think empathy. I think it's so so one of the things that, again, because that individual was willing to invest the time they invested in me when I was early in my career, and and again, just wanting to be that servant leader. When you're managing people, you're seeing the good, the bad, and the ugly of individuals, but you're not necessarily always understanding why that side of that person is coming out of them during that particular time. Right? It could be a very stressful time, but there could also be a lot of things that's happening to them personally. Lisa Nichols
Yes. Michael Smith
And and sometimes leaders get caught up in the, the motions of an employee is just another number. Right? It's just another cog in the wheel. Right? But they're not necessarily looking them as an actual person. Lisa Nichols
Human? Michael Smith
Yes. And and having empathy with them. I think one of the most, humbling, compliments that I ever received from an individual. And I was, I was just in a one on one meeting with them. It was actually a skip level meeting. So it was, they didn't report to me. They reported to someone else and that person they reported to reported to me. And, and they were sharing some things that were going on, and, and I was very attentive listening to everything. And toward the end of the conversation, they said this comment that has just stuck with me is they said, you know, Michael, you really have kind eyes. And I thought that is, you know, I'd never heard that before. Right? You know, because you could hear someone say, well, you know, you just your your your voice is very calming, you know, your actions are very, I feel safe, you know, with your actions. But for someone to say you have kind eyes, that means that they feel like you were listening and that they were. And, and I think a leader that can demonstrate empathy and be able to really relate to the individuals that they're leading, those are the individuals that will follow that leader at all cost. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think that's one of the most important traits that a leader needs is empathy. Lisa Nichols
Wow. You have kind eyes. Wow. I know. Michael Smith
That is really that was I mean, I was touching. Lisa Nichols
You saw they but what they meant is that you see them. Michael Smith
Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Nichols
You see them. So that's really that's beautiful. Well, Michael, this has been so much fun. I think we could go on and on and on, but we're out of time here. Thank you so much for being on the show, and I know that your comments, I know that your experience is gonna really help our listeners. Michael Smith
Well Thank you for sharing. Inviting me on. I appreciate it. Lisa Nichols
Absolutely. Announcer
Thank you for listening to today's show. Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc, two thousand and nineteen. For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit tpi dot co slash podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen.