Oh, absolutely. I'm so glad you said that because I was gonna mention that in the very beginning. I really believe that my calling to walking with people during the darkest days of their life or during the hardest portion or seasons of their life. I think it actually started when I was in elementary school when I was a friend to, the kids that nobody wanted to be friends with. That carried me on into some junior high days where I probably needed a friend because Mhmm. I was not, on the right path. And then, when I got to high school, I came to a a a decision of faith that really made a a a gravity type of of of, position for me. It really changed my whole entire life. And with that also came a calling that I sense God was going to lead me in for for the rest of my life and I thought that it would be something like you know, counselor or a teacher, but it actually became a youth pastor and so I guess it's because I I really like playing games and eating pizza, but there was something really, really special about what God was doing in my life at that time and and still. And and when I when I got married and and we had children and I entered a really kind of a dark season of my life with cancer. And there again, it just showed me how I was positioned for something so much more than just kinda wallowing in my own pain, which God accepted. But there's something really beautiful about all of that. And going back to high school, my my peer counselor, mister Paulson, who has retired now for a long time because I'm I'm old, and, he and I and a group of other students in nineteen eighty five or eighty six, I graduated high school in eighty six, we started a peer counseling group that's still in existence today at Monte Vista High School. And so it's so exciting. And I was just assigned to help freshmen and sophomores when I was a senior. And it was a beautiful thing that happened that started this whole train a rolling.

That is so cool. So you you kinda started that mentoring coaching kinda thing even when you're in high school. Well, I think this happened in high school too, but I remember because you talked about your faith. You came to faith, and that was very transformational for you. I think I read, that you had gone away on, like, a youth camp kinda thing. Yeah. And, you know, one of the youth pastor, I think, like, called you out and said, Steve, come over here. I wanna talk to you. And you said, oh, no. What have I done wrong? Immediately Yeah. Thought, oh, no. I'm gonna get in trouble for something. I but he just wanted to get to know you. Right?

Yeah. I thought I was going home for the stuff I brought. And, but, he really, you know, it's interesting as, Johnny, my youth pastor at the time, I just got a text today from him, and he sends me these scripture verses or, you know, sermons that he, has heard or whatever and he still is very, very important to me. But, yeah, he came to me, and he says, hey, I want you to come talk to me and I was like, oh, brother. My dad finds out that I brought some stuff. I'm gonna be in trouble.

In trouble.

And, but he and I basically told on myself. I said, well, Johnny, I'm really sorry. I brought this and I brought this and here's what I was doing. And he's like, no. I don't. I wasn't gonna talk to you about that. But now that you talk to me about that, what should we do? And I

was like, I don't know. Confession. You were confessing before you really knew that that was a thing. Right? That's so funny. Wow. But I think, I think later that night or a little while later, you asked Jesus into your heart and, you know, everything changed from there. So it doesn't surprise me that you. What's that? I'm sorry.

It was that night that I asked Jesus into my heart. Yeah.

That night. Yeah. But it doesn't surprise me, Steve, hearing that story and how, poignant of a time that was for you and and him in your life, you know, that you would become a youth pastor. I think that that's really amazing. Well, let me ask you this. You know, you you already talked about facing cancer, but, you know, how did that facing your own mortality deepen your understanding about grief? And how did that shape the way you approach others and show up for others today even?

You know, the the passageway of grief in a person's life is such an important one. And I didn't realize that when I was at a weak place in my life and I needed some additional help processing things. I remember the counselor shared with me, that he had noticed that I was trying to avoid any kind of suffering, And he called me on it. He's like, hey, Steve. Where do you see in your bible where avoiding trouble is going to advance you in your life? And I thought for a minute, I tried to speculate. I tried to spiritualize. I tried to do all the other things that start with the letter s. You know? And and I just started to just try to work it out. And I realized that God actually is interested in using suffering. Mhmm. That was the beginning point. When I got my cancer diagnosis, I literally said to the Lord, I don't get cancer, God. I help people who have cancer. And I remember asking. I remember calling my friends together for a prayer circle, and let's eradicate this cancer, God. Let's move. I wanna be victorious. I wanna I wanna have a a a a not only, you know, a cancer debt free, but I I wanna I wanna I wanna live in the in a in a spectacular, victorious. And Mhmm. I remember the Lord saying, no. I'm not gonna eradicate this the way that you want me to. I'm going to use this. And that is exactly what's happened with my divorce and with several other things.

Yeah. You know, somebody was telling me the other day that, like, you know, the valleys of our life, Steve, the flowers grow in the valleys. Uh-huh. Because the valleys are fertile. Mhmm. Right? Where those seeds can take root and real transformation and growth and change can happen, but, boy, they're not fun, and we certainly don't wanna pray for those. We don't wanna pray that we have those things. But yet in the other, you know, vein of that, you god is such a loving god that he's not going he doesn't want to us to stay stuck where we are. So I was just telling someone this morning. I said, you know, it's it's so hard when you're walking through things like that. But number one, god is not surprised by it. Number two, there's purpose in the pain even when we don't see it. You know? So

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think the purposes are sometimes, placed in the seasons of our life that look like gifts. Mhmm. And then other times, they're they are looking more like guidance where, you know, gifts are exciting and they're fun to open and they're they're they they usually have something to do with, bringing a smile on your face. But guidance is more sometimes a little more directional. It's a little more, hey. You're on the wrong path. Let me help you. And I don't believe God gave me cancer. I don't believe God, does things like that. But I know that this world is hard and life is difficult, and, he doesn't promise us all honey and no bees. You know?

That's right. That's right. Well, without the bees, the flowers, you know, we don't have, you know, the flowers or any of that, right, with pollen in there. So, Steve and, you know, I just think that this is gonna be so helpful for our people, but because everybody is carrying something, right, and going through things. But, you know, you've sat with hundreds of people walking through crisis and families having to say final goodbyes. What surprised you the most about what people need in those sacred moments?

You know, I think each one has its own uniqueness. I think what I'm seeing more and more now than ever is that hope has a way of materializing in the most mischievous and most mysterious places that hope has a way of showing up in the most amazing places. So helping people see that while they're paying attention to the process of grieving and mourning, hope does a wonderful thing of giving that guidance, and later, it shows up in gifts.

That's really beautiful. That's really beautiful. Well, you know, one of the things that you teach is grief isn't just about death. It's not about death. There's all kinds of things that we can grieve on, you know, any significant change. So let's talk about if you wouldn't mind, let's just talk about some of those forms of grief that sometimes we overlook. And, you know, it's it's a a loss in a way, but, you know, can you describe a few of those, and then, we'll talk about a lot more things.

Yeah. Yeah. I think some of the, points of grief are, you know, we tend to look at it just like you said. We tend to look at it, as of, as a death, and something. But there's disenfranchised, grief as well when there's a home loss or when there's a job change, when there's a manager that comes in, and just does things so different than the way that you like it to be done. Mhmm. There's there's the budget that, is totally malfunctioning in your mind. And all of those things kind of form a breakdown or if you will, like, almost like a broken heart. And because your ideas are not being materialized, your expectations are not being met. And any of those kinds of things, you know, first, you know, our first thought is to sulk or to pout, and, you know, and then that's a normal thing. You know? Something that a lot of people don't realize is that grief is not just, you know, a normal thing that happens, but it's also very natural, and it's also very necessary. And so those three n's, normal, natural, and necessary, those things really help us understand the the process of grief and what happens when we experience it. The disbelief, the unhappiness, the sadness, the anger that comes in, the frustration in our own minds about how things work, and then we begin to question everything. And that's a very big part of what we see happening. It's what happened to me, going through the loss of my son, going through the loss of a of a job change. That's very, very real. And when we acknowledge that, when we name it, the whole doors are opened at that point.

Yeah. I mean, it takes many forms because I'm just thinking, you know, it could be a dream that you've had for, you know, as long as you can remember a dream unrealized. You know, I mean, it could be a number of things and but I like what you said, you know, you gotta name it. I'm I'm I need to walk through the stages of grief with this. So, you know, what I mean, lot of people, you know, that are in pain. I mean, what's the thing that you think people are desperately longing for during that time? And I'm just you know, we've had a couple of, really dear friends lose children, and I just I got some counsel from Focus on the Family. Steve, during that time, you know what? I mean, there's really sometimes just nothing you can say. Sometimes it's a hug, right, or just your presence. But, you know, what have you seen? I mean, instruct our listeners, you know, and how can they recognize when somebody is grieving, and then how could they approach that situation in a really thoughtful, kind way?

Yeah. You know, I think we often find that silence is so uncomfortable for us. Mhmm. But I think, you know, the scripture is really clear about, you know, God's voice, and sometimes it thunders, and sometimes it's quiet and still, and gives us that comfort and that peace that everyone wants. And, you know, the first question you asked me there was was what are people looking for? And they're really looking for an anecdote. They're looking for something that they can do. But what my, counsel has always been is to come alongside them and what, doctor Alan Wolfelt describes as companioning. So my job is not to fix you. My job is not to bring you some wonderful antidote or some medicine or some kind of tip or, essential oil or or a plant or a walk or you know, it it has nothing to do with all those things. Those things are nice gestures, but those are not what people are looking for. What people are looking for is that peace, that Mhmm. Quietness that comes alongside and says, I've got you in the palm of my hand. And sometimes, the body of Christ, we as Christians, people who follow Jesus, we have an opportunity to be the incarnate Jesus who went to be his hand and feet. That's kinda like an old phrase that we've used, but it's really, really true. And so we can stop the the nuisance of trying to say that right thing. You know? I think that's what happened in the early four, forties, late late, forties, early fifties when someone coined the phrase, I'm sorry for your loss or my condolences to you.

You know, a long time ago, words were made up different. And so maybe at the time, those words were so pivotal. They meant something more, but now they don't mean as much. And even when you see it in a card, it's like, is that the only thing you could say? Yeah. And so there's something about peace and being able to offer something more than just a casserole, more than just, you know, comfort. Presence is something that is, high on my list to provide. And I remember one time I was with a a grieving family. They had just lost their grandmother. This grandmother was the matriarch of the family for.

Of the family.

They she she was the one that held all things together. And, and she was well known in the community. And so the world in this little town was really shaped and really shaped. Shaken shape. Up. And I remember just sitting with the son and the daughter and one of their children that was sitting on my lap. I had already had a couple of visits with this family, and so I had befriended this little this little girl. And she was probably oh, I think probably three or four. She had a really bubbly personality. And I, of course, you know, used to be a youth pastor, so I'd be, like, all about the fun and games, you know. And so I'd I'd reach out to her, and I'd show her a book, and I'd read it with her as I'm listening to the others. And I'm trying to do all these other things, and I'm just trying to be a presence. You know? And this this, brother and sister came up to me, and their little their little girl, came up, sat on my lap, and I said nothing. I said nothing. I I I really don't remember saying anything. I just remember holding this little girl on my lap, and I I think I put my hand on his shoulder. I think I put, I I I nudged her on her, arm right here. And I, I think if I said anything, it was probably something like, I'm so sorry that this is happening. And I remember at the funeral, I I I I officiated the funeral. And some of the people came up to me, and they said, Steve, we're so appreciative of what you did and what you said. And I kept thinking, man, I hope I said something really good. Yeah. But I didn't. I was just there. And I think that's what people want. People want to know that when they're in the dark, there's light.

That's so good. That's so good. So, yeah, so just being being present, not presence in terms of gifts, but being present is one of the most powerful things I think that we can do. Just that person knows that they're not alone. Right? So so good, Steve. Well, we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back with Steve Sewell on the something extra podcast.

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Well, welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with Steve Sewell. So, Steve, I've got your book here, "Hearing From God: Forty days in the Psalms." It really invites people to calm their soul during this the during the storm. One of my favorite Psalms is Psalm 23. And even sometimes at night when I'm having trouble falling asleep, I'll just recite that that Psalm in my mind, you know, but that I know that that is, the Psalm that was the scripture at my mom's, you know, funeral service and but, you know, what what has God taught you personally about listening to him and hearing his voice in seasons of chaos?

You know, when you go through something really heavy, you need something light. And when you go through seasons of time where things are just light and and easy, god almost says, okay. I wanna give you a little something heavier now. So what the Psalms are, I love them because they have so much weight, yet they carry so much peace. You know, one of my one of my favorites Psalms of all is Psalm one nineteen, and nobody ever talks about Psalm 119 because it's.

I love Psalm 119. It's the longest chapter in the Bible, right? I love Psalm 119.

It is so good. And I think I have I remember I remember getting ready to think through what God was going to do in me with the Psalms. I didn't know exactly what it was gonna come out to be. Like, what was it gonna be a book or a sermon or a series or something like that? And so I did what the Lord told me to do. He says, Steve, I want you to read through the Psalms. So I did. I read through them really quickly. Okay. And God said, hey. I thank you for your compliance, but can you read again? So I took a little more time and I read through it. And he goes, Steve, A+. Thanks so much for doing that. But can you slow this down so that I could show you amazing things that's in my word? And so for the next nine months, I went through the book of Psalms, and I felt like I gave birth to something.

Right.

You know? I mean, how does that even happen? But, I mean, it was so amazing. And so, like, one of my favorites, Psalm 119:54, your statutes have been the songs of my night. I will remember your name in the my pilgrimage. Oh, lord, I will keep your laws. And then over in Psalm 119 verse 105, your word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. I can't think of the Psalms for the storms of life than those.

Oh, I love that.

They had something of substance for me that really birthed in into that whole book.

Yeah. It's so beautiful. And, of course, King David wrote a lot of the Psalm. Right? And sometimes he is in the pit. Sometimes he's in the valley of despair, and then other times he was dancing and on the mountain top. Right? He's so so real, but I could not agree more. Well, I'll tell you one of my favorite, Psalm 119 is 33-37. It says, teach me, lord, the way of your decrees Yes. That I may follow it till the end. Give me understanding so I may keep your law and obey it with all my heart. Direct me in the path of your commands for there I find my delight. Turn my heart toward your statues and not towards selfish gain. Turn my eyes from worthless things. Preserve my life according to your word. And I have always loved that song because, you know, I love that even the one turn my eyes away from worthless things. Right? Because there is so much noise in the world, Steve. And there's so many things that we can turn our attention, our talent, our time, our treasure into. Right? But I don't want the worthless things. I want the things that matter to him most. Right? So if you are a listener out there and you've never read the Bible and this is, we've kind of sparked something in you, start with the Psalm. I promise the Psalms are beautiful. I promise you you will come away, and there will be treasures. There will be nuggets of gold, you know, in in those Psalms that, it's just a great place to start, I think, if if you have not read the scriptures. But thank you so much. Well, you already answered my question because I was gonna ask you, what's your favorite Psalm? And, and we just talked about it, so I love that. You know, what about this, Steve? For someone that's listening today who just feels really overwhelmed and just stuck in grief, just stuck in grief that they cannot get past. Is there one small simple step that they could take toward moving toward hope?

Yeah. You know, that's a such a great, such a great question because that's where a lot of people, you know, they feel like everything is happening. So how do I even start? It's like, you know, getting into a, you know, a whole a whole, barbecue restaurant there in in, Saint Louis or in the Midwest, you know, and then trying to pick out, do I get brisket? Do I get ribs? Should I get burnt ends? Which is what you should do. But Right. You know, and so all these things. So yeah. I think the most important thing that we can start with is saying, god, I wanna give you my time for the next ten minutes. Would you just speak to me? And sometimes, it's us saying a lot of words and then giving god the rest, or it's saying nothing and having my pen out and journaling what I feel god is saying or what I sense. So I think it's a starting point of saying God, would you come and would you meet me? And then my second thing is probably very, very practical, and a lot of pastors and preachers are like, oh, yeah. This is really good. But I always say, I need a journal to keep my brain from frying. In other words, I need to keep my to do list handy because if the devil can't make you bad, he'll he'll help you remember all the things you're not doing. So I keep my to do list handy on one side, and on the other side, I keep my journal open for God to speak to me. And those two things saying, yes, Lord, would you come in and would you rescue me? Would you speak to me? Would you I'm giving my permission for you to come, and then it's keeping the things straight.

I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I do know from reading about you, reading in your book, you are a big journaler. You're a big journaler. I am too. I've journaled since I was a little girl, and I love it. For that listener out there, Steve, that may be, well, what do you even write in your journal? What do you do you just talk about your day? Is it like a diary? I mean, what would you say to that person? How could they get started with the discipline of journaling if they're not a journaler?

Yeah. So that's also a really great question. And when I when I talk about journaling, I always say, write what you believe God is saying to you. Start there. And sometimes, I have said also, write out your prayer.

Yes.

There will be times when my writing is so small and so, it's pointed. It's focused. It's very meticulous. And then there's other times where I write four or five words per line because I'm hopping mad, and I all like what's going on, and I don't like the fact that I've just stepped on Allego, and I just and I I have to, I have to terminate this this person, or I have to change the focus of some positions, and people are not gonna be happy about that, or I'm taking away money, which people are getting really frustrated about. So I'm like, lord, you better be here because if I'm if you're not, then I am I'm gonna toast this thing. I'm gonna burn it down. And Yeah. So I'm just writing my feelings toward the things I'm writing. And then when I get deeper into my journal, I'm actually writing down what God's word says to me. So I'm actually writing the verse out, and then I'm saying, okay. So now what? Or so who cares? And then I'm writing that, that's why I use the word soap in my devotions, which wasn't created by me. It was rated by my friend, Wayne Cordero. But, in that soap, it really does have a way of cleansing us. We go about our devotions.

Yeah. Well, I love that you said that too. I mean, really writing out your emotions, writing out how you're feeling, it it's not a surprise to god. It's not a surprise to him, so it is totally okay to do that. Well, let I've got I've just got a few more questions here, and then we're gonna talk about something extra. But, your latest book, "When the Whistle Blows," really is a blend of sports, loss, personal resilience. What inspired you to write that book, Steve?

I have people laughing at me all the time. If you knew me, you would know that I am no athlete at all. I know how to bounce a ball. I know I played a little bit of basketball in junior high and high school in, like, intramural. I played volleyball. I ran track. That's it. But if you really wanna know the reason why I ran track was because there were some amazing girls in my group.

Girls? That's the, I knew you were gonna say that. That's so pretty.

I was like, sure. I'll run as long as so and so is in front of me. You know?

Sure. Sure. Sure.

So I was like, okay. Well, let's do it. And then I was running because my buddies were in it. But I'm no runner. My wife, Karen, she's a runner, and she's always saying, hey. You know, maybe you come out with me. I'm like, maybe I'll have a pizza. But there there's something amazing about the fans and the coaches. All through my kids' life, especially when they were younger, I supported them in sports. They ran track, they had soccer, they played basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, we tried hockey for about two weeks, I think. There were all kinds of things, wrestling. And so I showed up. And I was trying to be the dad that I wanted to be for them, but then I started realizing who I was also showing up for. It was the other moms and dads on the fence. It was the other moms and dads in the field. Yeah. I was taking some of their cookies, you know, on in the bleachers. But, and drinking some of their iced tea and long, tennis matches in the middle of, you know, May

Right.

There was something amazing that was going on during those matches and those events and those games and those tournaments. And I started wondering, I wonder, I wonder if there's anything out there that is written for athletes and coaches and fans about grief. And, you know, I couldn't find very much. So I asked God, and I journaled. And I came back with this, I'm no athlete, but I sure love athletes. And I Mhmm. Coaches, and that's the reason why I made it. I've got a buddy who lives in Saint Louis, Jeff. I'm shout out to Jeff. He, he tells me all the time, Steve, don't talk sports with anybody who knows sports.

Oh, that's so funny.

And, you know, and you know, you know, and, and he laughs at me, but he's my coach. He's my Mhmm. When I'm when I'm at a game, I'm like, you know, okay. Hey. Did you see that call? What was that call all about? Don't talk about it, Steve. You know?

No. That's funny. That is funny. People yeah. That's funny. Well, that's really that's interesting. And, you know, just for our listeners, I mean, Steve has also written a book for children, about dealing with grief and finding hope. But let let's talk about this, and then I've got just a couple more questions for you, and then we're gonna talk about something extra. Steve, now you're helping companies navigate change, transition, burnout, see if, loss. You, you got you do several keynotes, and one of them is Banish management burnout, taking care of yourself and your team. Talk to me about that. Are you do you are you seeing some burnout with with teams and leaders?

We are seeing amazing amounts of crash and burns because people are trying to do everything with something that they have. And it's employers are asking more. They're giving less Team members, managers, foreman, supervisors, they're they're all trying to follow the rule of the road, and their their their their teams or people are just falling apart. And so what I've discovered is that if we can avoid trying to burn both ends of the candle you know, someone told me once that if we're if we're burning both ends of the candle, we're not as bright as we think we are. And so Right. When we can be all in, but still have a life. And I've said this for years now. Let's go to work, but live at home.

Oh, that's good. Say that again. Say that again. That's gold.

When we can go to work and live at home, our life has more meaning. We are never going to be given more than twenty four hours in a period of time. And so we ought to be living at home and going to work. And when our employees just say, you know, hey. Can you give extra? We can say, I can give extra this time, but I don't want it to be something where you're asking me to stay twelve hours every day. But I'm happy to stay twelve hours, on this occasion.

Yeah.

Let's not make it a habit. Right. Not it's not saying anything negative. It's putting your place into it it it's it's setting the investment into the into the organization. Burnout, stress is super high. So I'm bringing some humor. I'm bringing some story. I'm bringing some, some real life. But, you know, burnout and stress really has its roots in some suffering and grief. And so we're talking about that too. So it's funny how we I can bring the grief education part into the corporation. And go back. Oh, holy smoke. I didn't realize this was happening.

Yeah. I think this one is really, you know, I think it's so poignant right now and because it is the anxiety and stress, they say, is an all time high even with children and, you know, teenagers and children even very young, because I think you're right. We're, number one, burning the candle at both ends, very high expectations of ourself and others. Right? You know what okay. So you already talked about one. Don't burn the candle at both ends. Make sure you're getting plenty of sleep. But, you know, you talk about five tactics to stop feeling overloaded, overwhelmed, or overlooked. Give me a couple more of those, Steve. What are some real practical things if somebody's feeling that right now? They feel like they're just overwhelmed. What's one or two things that they can do in addition to making sure they're getting proper sleep and eating well.

Yeah. So besides those those types of things, eating well, sleeping well is really good. I think my number one point of interest to tell our folks who are just stretched thin. I always help them see the need for a mentor. And a lot of people think, well, you know, why why would I need a mentor? Why would I need another meeting to go to? Or why do I need to have another Zoom call or another time where I'm sitting across when I don't have enough time to do the work that I'm supposed to be doing, especially if it's like a manufacturing type setting. But here's where the beautiful thing or the art of mentoring comes into place, is that someone else can say to you, you're an idiot. And get away with it. I Right. I love it when my band of brothers will come to me and they say, Steve, I'm concerned about something that I'm seeing you do. Are you aware of it? And then I'm thinking to myself, what? I didn't even know I was going that way. I didn't know that I was coming home at the end of my rope every single day so that my kids get zero of my enthusiasm. Mhmm. My spouse gets zero of my passion and my communication and my compassion for them. Because I'm using it all at work. And so when a mentor comes alongside you, there's something really special, that happens is they can point things out, and they can say, hey. I'm concerned for you. And because I'm a friend to you and because you want to be better, I wanna point it out.

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Sometimes we need that mirror, right, because we can't see. Right? And that mentor, that trusted advisor can be that mirror to say, hey. I'm seeing this and helping point out blind spots. That's really good. So that's one thing that they can do, and I think that's a really good one. Well, Steve, let me ask you this. This is called something extra. What do you believe is this something extra that every leader needs?

I believe that if we pay attention to the grief we carry, we actually help the other people in our lives carry their grief too. So our personal losses when they're unknown, they're unspoken, they shape how we live. They shape our pace, our rhythm, our cadence, and a lot of things. And, what happens is that when we carry our grief well, we actually mentor, using that word again, mentor to others. Because constantly, we are coming up against people who are saying, you know, you did something the other day that really spoke to me, or you did something the other day that really hurt me. I thought you were better than that. And so it's this having the the the, you know, it's kind of a good news about loss, if you will. When you acknowledge your loss and your grief, that loss becomes like a mentor. And so my hope is that people listening today, and people listening tomorrow when I speak, in a in a in a conference tomorrow, that they'll see why their grief is important to name, to work through for them. But then the second wave of that is that it helps other people.

For others. Wow. That's really beautiful. Out of three hundred and seventy episodes, nobody has ever said that, Steve. So that's a very unique and a first, so I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for making the time to be on the show. I'm glad that we can make this work. Again, shout out to our dear friend, Jim Bechtel, for connecting us, and just wish you the very best. Keep being a shining light and helping people, you know, with your the conference tomorrow and, just blessings to you.

Well, thank you so much for everything that you do and for all of the podcasts you've had. Wonderful. Congratulations. And it's a beautiful opportunity to be with you.

Thank you for listening to today's show. Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc two thousand and nineteen. For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit tpi dot co slash podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen.