So I was born and raised in Mexico. I was born actually in Mexico City, which is a huge, huge city. Right? One of the biggest cities in the world. But, very early, my parents moved to a border town where my dad was from. The name of this town is Piedras Negras, Coahuila, which if I translate it, would be something like Blackstone City. But just to put context to everyone who's listening or viewing this, think about, San Antonio, Texas driving two and a half hours south. And there's a town there that, it's called Eagle Pass, Texas. And you cross that border, which is a two hundred yard bridge, and you cross to my hometown, Tierra Nyrescoahuila. I was there. I I I I was raised there since I was probably less than a year. So I would I would say that I am from that that that small town. It's a very small town. It still is. It's a border town, so imagine similar to Tijuana and other, like, bigger cities in that sense, but very small, not a lot of infrastructure while I was, growing up. A very humble town. You know, I always tell everyone that for me, it was never used normal to have, like, air conditioner or, like, you know, hot water and and in a, like, on a regular basis. Those things, particularly in my in my area, just was, like like, not common. So it's those things that, kinda like shape a little bit. Like, when I was able to go to other cities, or visit family in other places, I would see, how different everything was. Or even the dichotomy to just cross the border and see that, oh my gosh, there's this whole world with infrastructure, huge hospitals. Like, even in this small town, Eagle Pass, Texas. Right? They had malls and hospitals and McDonald's and things like that. And it was just, like, just crossing the border. Right? Just just, you know, from my from my backyard, you could see it. So, that itself obviously created a little bit of, desire to learn other languages. My parents, my my dad never spoke English. My mom doesn't really speak English, other than basic to communicate now with her with her grandson. But, you know, it was that you gotta learn other languages. My parents were very clear on English was a given that you had to and so others. And so it was this kind of, like, being in a small town surrounded of possibilities. Right? So I had family in other cities, bigger cities. So when I would go to these big cities, I was like, oh my gosh. It's so different from where I come from. And that created a lot of, my personality. Like, since I was a kid, I was a kid that I I was reflecting on this because I do hear your podcast and I know we're gonna talk about that. And, you know, I was that kid that, you know, always in all kinds of contests and and and, you know, all kinds of stuff. And I was that kid who always, you know, getting the best grades and doing all those things. But looking back, it was it was I'm I'm I'm proud of that version of me because that version of me because who was so used to different things, was just, like, always hoping to get to the next level even as a kid. And so eventually, I got a scholarship for, one of the top universities in in Monterrey, Mexico. And that was my chance to kinda, like, you know, explore and go out. I left when I was sixteen. I got a scholarship at sixteen. Yes. And then from from there, the the the rest is history.

So you went you started college when you were sixteen, Sam? Mhmm. Oh, my goodness. Wow.

Yeah. So I'm on the younger side.

Yeah. Wow. I mean, you I know that I knew that you were brilliant, but, yeah, that just shows you that, you definitely you had ambition. I'm thinking it created this you you grew up as a curious child, you know?

There was always books. I'm seeing your background and I'll tell you one thing. Well, I had a lot of, like, you know, limitance in my surrounding books was never something that I lacked. Like, my parents, a lot of things, you know, there were things that we could need, but books were always available. And so therefore, I remember I was talking to my sister the other day about that, like, you know, how many books we always had in architecture books and stuff like that. They were, like, completely out of what we were used to in our hometown. And yet, you know, I remember spending so many hours just looking at the pictures, reading, and, yeah, books.

Yeah. That's good. I mean, what did they say? You are the the the person you are in five years will the only difference between now and then will be the books that you read and the people you meet. Right? You know? And I I I'm I love books too. I grew up as an only child, so books were my friends. And I just I would devour them. So I love that you and I share that in common. Well, I know that you had an interest in architecture. Was there was it from the books? I mean, who that interest?

So my dad actually studied architecture, but, but moving from a huge city to a small town where there was no infrastructure, not real opportunities for that, my dad was doing more so construction work then. And it was more like every so often because the town itself didn't, you know, didn't have a lot to offer for like that that area. But that's why I had a lot of access access to books like that. But in general, I mean of any kind. But, but I knew when I was about eleven, I was thinking about this. When I was about eleven years old, I decided I wanted to study architecture. And so much because in my, I was always in the public schools in Mexico. And, when you're in junior high, I think it would be the equivalent for us. You have the opportunity to study a trade. For me, I picked drafting. I knew that I wanted to, at some point, be in in architecture or construction, and so I went more so into drafting so I could kinda, like, eventually do some kinda work like that. Mhmm. Eventually in high school, I got into, the trade that I picked for high school because it's very trade driven. It was more, computer, programming. But it was kinda like more so about technology and trying to understand that from that perspective. But I knew when I was, like, ten or eleven that I wanted to get into construction architecture. And I think, again, it was my you know, because I knew where I was, there wasn't any of that. And I was like, well, how can I do that? How can I be part of of being that? And so when I go to Monterrey, Mexico, I get a a full scholarship and I was so blessed. But but again, it was years and years of since I I my sister and I like, this story is funny because, my sister is nine years older than me. And so but we're very close. And, the other day we were remembering, because I'm always very like, oh, okay. The next plan and what are we gonna do and how we're gonna do it. And I'm always stressing her about something. Like, she calls me we were talking about, Sam, you were like eleven years old or ten and you're calling me, like, in four years, you're gonna try to get a scholarship and you were stressing about how can you figure out how to get to that scholarship. And she's like, I cannot re like, understand how when you were eleven or twelve where you were so stressed about scholarship and and for and and, you know, I was that kid. And so eventually, after so many years of trying to get that scholarship, I get it. And I go to Monterrey, Mexico, which is a huge city, very modern, a lot of infrastructure. I I tell people, if you haven't had the opportunity to go to big cities in Mexico, Monterrey, Mexico City, Guadalajara, those are big cities to be. And it's kind of a mix between LA and New York with mountains. So, so when I had the chance to move, you you see a whole different world. Right? You see, the universities are huge. You see the campuses. You see, the big buildings. And I started to work, within three months of me moving. And I started working in construction, like, as an assistant of of of an engineer or, like, a secretary or whatever I could do. At that point, like, I was doing it. And so read

that you worked for an engineering firm and you were making three dollars and eighty cents an hour.

Yes.

And you were going to school full time. I mean, and of itself. But you said you learned so many things in that job. Yes. So many things. Probably, what was it? You what what's really popular tacos for breakfast?

Yeah. So for instance, I was with you a few things. Right? Like the things that you're gonna learn in college and you're not gonna learn in any MBA or anything. First, I'm still friends of many of the people, that I work with during those times and and we keep ourselves, I don't I'm not big in social media, but I use it because that's the only way where I can keep up with the people that I've been in

support of Yes.

In the world. And so I do use social media for those reasons. But, first, I remember, like, tacos. I tell everyone when I realized that if I had to do something and I needed to ask for help, if I brought tacos in the morning, life was easier. For some reason, just like everyone was in a better mood, everyone was more willing. And I was like it's so worth it. So if I save this much and I go and buy tacos for everyone, like literally like my life would be easier that day. But now in in all seriousness is also creating that level of, you know, connection with others. But that job I was when I wrote I wrote an article on LinkedIn about that, I didn't have a title. I mean, I did I sometimes I would open the office and that meant that if I was, it was a small office. If so, if I was there earlier, that meant that I needed to check for the trash and I needed to make sure that things like I knew what I'm proud of of me of that version is that nothing was below me. And I love that because now, you know, you get to a point where you're like, well, is that the best use of my time? Is that this and that? But back then, everything was like, oh, yeah. Of course. I'll do that. And so that attitude of me, thank goodness, that I had that that that right, you know, mentality, helped me to to not see anything as a small thing. And and I learned from how to manage an office to how to figure out, you know, the real math and and and, you know, just just create that. And I never had a title in that role.

Mhmm. Mhmm.

I'm so grateful for that that no one gave me a title, and therefore, it was whatever is available, then I'll do it.

You know what? You were there to create value. I mean, somebody has to empty the trash cans. Cans. Right? It nobody's gonna wanna be there if the trash cans are overflowing. I mean, really, you were there to create value, and I love you know, so don't if you are a listener and you've got a job that you don't feel like is, you know, as important or whatnot. No. It is. Every job is important. And just the attitude that you approach that job, people take notice of that too. Right? I mean Well, it did. Having a good attitude.

And it did. And I I mean, you know, now of course we have interns and I I look at all the, you know, it's how different my world was from that. And, I learned so much and and and actually doing things like that. Like I don't even drink coffee and I remember like having to put coffee for people. I was like, I don't even drink coffee. So how do I do this? But even those skills that there weren't in for me, it was just creating my ability to, you know, when I brought coffee to someone said, so so what are you working on? What are you doing? And so why are you doing what you're doing? Right? And I was that person who I was very curious, and, you know, trying to figure out, like, what what I wanted to do. But, I worked with an engineering firm. I also worked with an architecture firm. And I remember the first day I I joined to that small architecture firm. They were using AutoCAD and I back then at college, we were starting to use Revit and we were and I was, like, great at SketchUp. It was a software super easy to use. And I was, like, I think we need to start using other softwares. Right? I think but and I look at back to even at that age, I was, like, should we do something different? Should we think about But I think it was my the right attitude I had that people were willing to listen.

Absolutely.

Okay. We we can we can listen for a second. Right.

I love that. It's a great, lesson for us. Right? You know, to not, discount what others say, but to take the time to listen because yeah. I mean, I'm sure you had some really great ideas. Well, let's talk about this because you trans you know, you kinda transition from architecture to to finance. Yeah. Now you build financial frameworks, not necessarily buildings, although you're working in a construction company. How did that transition happen? And, you know, I I would love and then I'd also love for you to answer this question, Sam. You've said that really building buildings and the architectural background has really helped you when you built financial systems, and I'd love to understand that parallel.

Yeah. So so, yeah, it's a fun story. So I when I was in Mexico, I got my degree in architecture and a master's in construction. So I knew that construction was definitely the the the area where I wanted to grow my career at least for the first ten years. Right? I always joke that I still thought that I was gonna be designing huge buildings, but then I was like, well, maybe I'm I'm better at some other things. Maybe design is is what I wanna do for myself and not for everyone else. And so, in this journey of trying to find, you know, the next opportunity, I get this opportunity to work for a huge, company. The name is FEMSA and what they do, they have different divisions and one of it imagine it's like seven eleven and they would bill oxes which is the equivalent to seven eleven, put it in that context. And we were building seven, Oxus and all over Mexico, all over Mexico and it was like thousands of them. And also in South America, which I was I was, lucky to be part of the group that started to design for Colombia. And so I had a chance to also work with with that group. So anyways, we were we were doing that and I was put in the area of construction investments. And I learned from a very small spot, I learned, how performance work. And I learned how huge companies would make decisions on where to allocate these strategic places based on other data points. And back then, I mean, you're talking about when there was no Power BI, there was no data analytics per se, but it was like understanding data at a big point and trying to figure out what was gonna make one of these stores successful. From a design perspective, we were gonna make decisions based on those data points that were that had nothing to do with architecture or construction, but it had everything to do with the location and the products that likely are to be sold there. Right? So think about all the things I just said that had nothing to do with construction itself. But ultimately construction was designed based on those potential outcomes for the store to be the most successful. So I was put in this position with no technology back in those days, but trying to analyze all that and provide a recommendation based on formulas and methodologies that this huge company had established. And I am very, very blessed with life that put me in that position to be in a company that had a construction division, but their mindset was engineering and logistics. And so doing so helped me to understand all the things that I could do that had nothing to do with I learned architecture school, but I could apply it as process driven to what I was planning to do eventually. Right?

Mhmm.

But I do that, for about a year, year and a half a year. And then I, get this opportunity to move to another job that was a huge residential tower that we were gonna build in San Pedro. And so that was more so construction. But they needed someone to drive the cost management of this building. And this was a three hundred million dollar project. Think about more than fifteen years ago. So three hundred million dollar project, three hundred more than fifteen years ago. It was it was a big investment in one of the biggest, one of the most, high end residential areas in Monterrey, Mexico. And I get this opportunity to work with this company, and, they I was very young. I was probably, like, twenty one years old. And they, this guy took a chance on me. It literally he after talking to me and says, okay. You got the position, so you have to build a team. And I had to build a team of six, eight people who were by far older than me, a lot more experienced. And we go in working with architects that wears, PELI architecture. So that anyone knows how they're, like, huge and very iconic, towers. So working with people from India, United States, construction companies, like, all over the world, and I happen to speak English. Not as good as now, but back then I was like, yes. I can do it. And so I get that chance and I get to build this team. And we do a lot of value engineering. So we represent the owner client the owner. And the crazy thing is I worked a lot with the finance team to make sure that the pro form a applied and that we were gonna be successful. So then I learned here, my gosh, this is what I'm good at, like figuring out how to do the business of construction successful itself. Maybe not so much at the design level, but or or or on in the field. Right. I can do this. Right?

Mhmm.

At that time, of course, I had already done work enough in the field, and I would still go to the field, and I would still do all this work that ultimately had to happen in order for me to be able to do value engineers, mainly with the subcontractors, going through all the drawings, understanding the cities, all the things that need to happen. But I learned that I didn't need needed to know the details. I needed to know how to manage the overall, like, vision of what we were trying to accomplish. And by the end of that job, I was like, I'm good at this. I'm actually good at something that is in the construction field. And from there, I had I had people reaching out all over about so you know how to do this cost engineering thing. So but at that point, I don't have any true credentials that will allow me to move to the financial group.

Mhmm.

Eventually, I decide to apply for a job in the United States. I more than that, I put my resume on LinkedIn.

What year was that, Sam?

Man. So I was probably, like, twenty three years old, if

that was Oh, wow. Okay.

That's more than fifteen years ago. So Right. So LinkedIn wasn't a big deal back then. LinkedIn was you know, people understood LinkedIn.

Nobody used it though.

Nobody used it. Right. I got obsessed about trying to understand how to use this tool. I was like, I need to figure out because this is the only way I have to connect to the world outside Mexico. Mhmm. Back then you could do, like, a lot of, like, websites and load your resume and stuff like that. But actually the one who, like, encouraged me pretty hard was my sister who is an engineer. She works in San Antonio, Texas, and she was like, you have to apply. You have to do all this. And so I put my resume and I start getting calls. Eventually, I I make a decision to come to the states. And, I started working with our manino with a ma manino. Sorry. Now it's called our manino back then was bronze. And, I stayed there not long because glyco stole me. I work at glyco construction right after that. But when I moved to Glyco, I started to do a lot of cost engineering. I was, like, the first person to do cost engineering for this huge construction company in Saint Louis. And they gave me the the freedom to go about it, to what what you needed to do and how you needed to do it. And so eventually, I get more so into trying to cross reference everything that you can do in the construction side and say, how can we do that to the finance? How can we forecast better? How can we do better profit plans? How can we do all that? And then during that time, I went back to school. I got an MBA from Webster University, and then I decided I was gonna do a master's in finance as well while working. And that's how I was able to kinda, like

To really transition. I had the credentials. Yes.

You had the credentials, but actually use them. And I tell there's any young person listening. I'm I love studying as you can tell. Like, I'm someone who loves school, but it's better when you're intentional about it, when you know, you know, why you wanna do it. And I knew what I wanted to do with it. And so, therefore, when I went to school, I loved it. I was like, I love it.

You were all in.

Yeah.

You were all in. I love that. That's good. You had an end goal in mind. You what just to go to school for school's sake. I love that. Well, let me ask you this. So, like, coming to, you know, coming to the states, I mean, was that hard? Sam, was that a big cultural change for you?

And I tell I, you know, I tell some people when when we talk about this, because sometimes I have the opportunity to talk to, high schools in my hometown and like that. And and I keep this to myself, but sometimes well, sometimes I tell myself, I'm so glad that I didn't know how difficult it was gonna be. And I'm so glad that I had nothing to lose. When you have nothing to lose, when your pockets are empty, there's nothing that you're gonna lose. Like, I remember my mom I I told this to my mom not long ago. Because my mom is very, very simple, very humble, very smart, but but, you know, her world is a lot different than mine. Mhmm. Sense of how how, you know, how our days go. And I remember when I was leaving a great job that I had in Monterey, a huge network of people that I had already worked with. I was successful. I had friends from college. I had, you know, all this, and I was gonna move to Saint Louis, Missouri. And I called my mom and I said, what if this doesn't work? And again, my mom with no resources. My sister and I are the ones who back then we, you know, we we we took care of her. And she said, well, Sam, worst thing is you come back and come home. Right? Like, the worst thing that can and I am so grateful that those were the words. She knew I wasn't she knew my personality that I was gonna figure it out everything. But, I knew that, well, okay, worst thing is I don't like it and I come back.

And you come back.

But but it was difficult because what people doesn't know when you come to the states, you come with no credit whatsoever. The world doesn't, you don't exist toward the world. Apply for apply for, driver's license. You it's like you don't get the best rate even though you've been driving. Like none of that exists. Mhmm. You don't have credit. You don't have, anyone who back you up. I couldn't even be able to sign for a lease. So I end up, like, paying cash and this and that. It was like and I was, like, twenty three years old. So I was trying to figure out how to do all that. And and thankfully, I was you know, people were Saint Louis was very graceful, and I found some people who were able to help. But, you don't know those things when you're immigrating. You you just think that, you know, you're there to work and you're gonna figure it out, but the logistics are pretty complicated.

Mhmm. Yeah. You have to have some resilience and grit and confidence in yourself. I mean Mhmm. But I look at things like that when we go through things like that. Now when you're maybe stepping in with something that's uncomfortable, you're like, well, I did that so I can do this. Right?

If you're Yeah. Like, with your club. Immigration, I tell people anyone well, this is an interesting approach. When I moved to the states, like, I always tell people in Spanish, guys, I'm great at speaking in Spanish. I have valedictorian, great at giving speeches, but then in English it was like, I the technical words. Right? I went to school in Spanish. Some of the things I can like, especially when I moved, like, I was so so paralyzed by the language because I was like, but I'm very smart. I almost like I was trying to tell people, but I I promise you I'm very smart. It's just not coming out like how I want it. But the other day, this is like full circle. I have a four four and a half year old and I was in in in he goes to an in an international Spanish, school here in Saint Louis. It's bilingual. It's actually an immersion school so it's all in Spanish. And we were in our house and and he was eating and I don't know what I said, but I said something like, Landon, what does it mean when someone has an accent? You know what he said? He said that that person he said that that person is very smart. So for me, it was full circle because all the concerns I had moving in about my my, you know, my ability to speak and the accent and all that, my son has a completely different wire in his head. Right? Mhmm. But him listening to someone with an accent means that that person is very smart. Very smart. Mom has an accent. And he knows that that means that that You're very smart? So it was a full like, okay. Maybe I'm doing something well. But in all

Sam, hopefully, that doesn't change for you. Because there comes a point where they're like, they don't think you know anything. Yeah. Right? But I'm sure that won't happen.

No. But as an immigrant, truthfully, it's one of those things. As a professional immigrant, you you you wanna make sure that, you know, you're doing a fair job to the fact that you come from another country and that you represent that country to some extent. And coming to Saint Louis was a great decision, but it it came with a lot of logistics that at that age, I had no clue I was gonna have to figure it out.

Right. Oh my goodness. Well, I've got so many more questions for you, but we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back on the Something Extra podcast with Sam Cook.

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Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with my friend, Sam Cook. So, Sam, let's talk just a little bit more about Clayco, and then I wanna get into what you're doing today. You spent eight years there.

Yeah. I was act yeah. I think that it's a little bit off, but it's it was about nine or ten years. Almost ten. But yes.

What did you love the most about that chapter of your of your career?

So I saw a company, grow, with with the leadership of, Bob Clark, you know, providing a vision and and establishing that. And what I learned, I worked next to I don't know if if you ever met Russ Burns. Russ Burns was the, CEO. Yes. Just passed, earlier this year. And I had the opportunity to work with him a lot, and I learned a lot from him.

You bet you do.

Yes. A lot of direction, a lot of ability to make decisions even when you don't know all the things that that you might think you need for that decision. So a lot of assumption making, a lot of, creating, the structures and methodologies that would come to that that outcome. And and with him, I learned a lot about that. Like, you don't need to know everything. You just have to be able to figure out the next five steps, but you gotta be very intentional about that. There's some quotes that he would say, like, don't hear what I'm not saying. And so I would always pay attention to then what was he what was he trying to say when he said that?

Right.

But, with Clayco, I had the opportunity to move in different roles from cost engineering, cost management, financial enterprise management. So I had the opportunity to work not just construction but also different divisions of the of the company. So they back then it was, their design engineering, their, class, company, Ventana. They had also their company for CSI, which was their concrete and then CRG. So I had the opportunity not to see how just manage the GC world, but also different, perspectives and how to fight, you know, those different angles and try to figure out what to how the vertical approach, ultimately improves, an organization from delivery, but also from a financial resiliency. So so I had that chance and, you know, working with people like Thomas Love and the technology area and the Kona and the risk management. There's a lot of names here in Saint Louis that would, you know, define a lot of the the, how tos, and I think I click I was able to work, side to them and learn from them.

So important. So important. Great great, you know, wisdom for us. Right? I mean, people we always say those who know how show how and really having, that ability to have access to people like Russ Burns. I mean, what a gift. Yeah. What a gift, Sam. Well, I I wanna talk about this because I know that you founded, or cofounded Clayco now. Yeah. Tell us about Klayco now.

Yes. And I I think they're doing a fantastic job now these days. But, back then when I was at Klayco, I saw a need for, creating a connection amongst all the females in the industry within Clayco and outside because, you know, we touch subcontractors. We touch a lot of people. Mhmm. And when I was at Clayco back in those days, I mean, now fantastic job that they've done in in inclusion and diversity. But there was not females in the executive team. There was, only care, Carolina, Carol, sorry, from the, legal department. There was a few names that, you know, that I could think of, but there was like a very different approach to how to support women in the industry. And, back then, I remember going to Bob Clark and I said, hey, Bob, I think we need to do something like this. We work on, a name, Clayco now network of women. And, yeah, the rest was history, and we started to create when I was there, my focus more so was in creating, successful connections amongst the women of Clico, but also providing some of the, knowledge base, things that could help us for negotiation, for, creating a lot more of a confidence amongst women.

Mhmm.

And they've done a fantastic job from what I see. We did bring I was able to do the first, bring your daughter to to Cleco. And I I see the pictures. They keep doing that, and it's so fantastic. And they have elevated it for sure. But it was great. For me, it was a good a good way to spend time with the community and learn from, the national women's of of, the national association of women in constructions, have them, like, participate and and just just join. But I've I've all but I've I've also evolved a little bit from just working with women in the industry in the sense of the more I have grown in this industry. This is kinda like a dichotomy in my thought process, but I have a separated a little bit myself of only being in women only groups. Why? Because I think that while that is good for our ability to create those connections, I'm not sure those are the ways that are really creating results in the changes that we wanna see in the construction industry. Mhmm. As with transparency and I think as with giving opportunity, to those who deserve it and through fair, you know, assessment of skill sets and and being part of those groups that can actually implement the change. So I, you know, it's like I I've I've learned to kinda see both sides and say, how can I continue working with women, to help them to to get to those spots Mhmm? Outside being in women in construction associations.

Yeah. There's I think there's a place for both. I think there's a place for both, Sam, because to your point earlier, the confidence, that's what we see sometimes with women is there's a lack of confidence. So you can work on the skills, but sometimes, you know, having both Right. Female and male in there

Of course.

To learn from each other too. The men learn as much from the women. Right? So, yeah.

I have to say some of my biggest allies in growing my career have been, men. I mean, it's been so so the way that I think about that these days is what boards am I part of? What one on ones I do with people, especially if someone reaches out and says, hey, do you mind meeting with so and so, my daughter, my friend, my coworker who is in a completely different company? I'm like, that's, that's where I spend most of my time nowadays. But it all started from that need of networking with our women.

Sure. Yeah. Well, that's why your calendar is so full because you do do those things, but they're important. Right? And that's just who you are. If somebody says, hey. I have a daughter that's looking at concern. You're gonna take the time, Sam, to meet with that person, and I love that about you. I know, like, in twenty nineteen, you you did receive the inclusion award from the Saint Louis Council of Construction Consumers.

I did.

So congratulations for that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, alright. So let's let's pivot. Let's go to Brinkman now. So you are the CFO at Brinkman. What does a day in the life look like for you? I mean, you've already kinda told me that, you know, you will take these meetings, to mentor young women and things like that. But what what kinds of things are you would typically make up your

day? So so bring them so bring them has has changed even a lot since since I joined. Back when I joined, we were eight hundred million. Now we have double that. Since then we have opened two offices. So we now have offices in Denver. We've we've had offices in Denver and and, Kansas City and Richmond. And, now we have an office in, Phoenix. We open an office in Phoenix, an office in Florida most recently. Am I forgetting one? No. Well, Saint Louis. Yeah. But, well, so things have changed a lot. Nice. And I I say that with a lot of pride because I think a lot of the things that have remained are what makes Spring Man so special, as a company. The people at Spring Man, we have fantastic people. But but for me, I think so I spent time a lot of time with the leadership team, both the CEO and the president. And it's a lot of time also looking at different areas that I I drive. Obviously, the financial, the accounting, the, the technology I work. Also, I'm responsible for the technology area. So a lot of data. But day to day is to make sure that we have, you know, all the tools that we need to continue, like, moving the company in the right way. But first of all, I have a great team. I always tell everyone. So when I joined, I had the opportunity. And back then, it wasn't it it was pretty stressful, but I had to build a team from scratch. Mhmm. And creating a different infrastructure because the company was growing too fast in the sense of even for finance and accounting, you have to have a true strategy in how you're gonna deploy resources to to decrease the impact to operation on those areas. And so some people came actually from other companies that I work with. And, and that that I'm always, thankful for anyone who did that because they follow me without even me asking. So I always appreciate that. But here we have a fantastic team, and so that allows me to do a lot of, like, check ins into, okay, what are the next things that we need to be working on for the next two years? So a lot of my approach when it comes as a CFO, yes, of course. I have to make sure that on a monthly basis and on a quarterly basis, we have a curiosity. But to me, it's a lot of preparing for the next twenty

four months. Sure.

What you know? And so in the last few years, it's working on developing a lot of infrastructure to systemize all that level of conversation all our offices with the vice presidents. And spending a lot of time trying to define that what how does that look like? What is the financial impact? And what decisions we need to make to make sure that we're always above the curve? But on a daily basis, you know, I wake up. I make sure that my, you know, my the things with my son are figured out between my husband and I.

Yes.

And, then I come to work and there's always something, you know, people driven. I think I I tell this to my husband and, to my friends is that I never I never thought I was gonna spend so much time, figuring out people. That's ultimately. Right? Because as leader, that's what that's where you spend your time. How can you make everyone's, not life easier, but their their time at work more efficient? What are the barriers that they have that you need to be, you know, moving from them? What are the things that you need to be doing for them? Because they're ultimately the ones doing the work. So my job is to make sure that the environment and the vision for our team is there.

Mhmm. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Your job is to make sure that your people are being able to be their best version of themselves while they're there. Right? Because they're the ones that, you know, are gonna move the company forward. I mean, you can't do it on your own. Right? It's working through other people. So I I completely agree. Well, Brinkman has just a stellar reputation for those. We have people that listen all over the world, you know, Sam. So if there's somebody in Europe that would love for you guys to open up an office in Europe, Make sure you reach out to see him. Just, the quality. I mean, you can just see you can tell the difference between a Brinkman building and another building. There's just a higher level of

Our our passion to building are Yes. The people that we have within operations, our goal to satisfy the needs of our clients, to understand, and to always have the second best right answer. That's something that Bob Bremen would say often, when when he was walking around this building, but still, it's something that it's still, on everyone's mentality and make sure that we, you know, cross any paradigm and that we question we question why and offer the best solution to our clients. And I think that I tell this to everyone even in the finance and the accounting and the technology. If you ask anyone of my team, what do you do? The response is we build buildings because ultimately that's what we do. We have function within the company that that ultimately presents that product.

Right.

Something that

No matter what your function is, we build it reminds me literally of the you probably know the story about, JFK that had gone and, you know, visited NASA and talked to a janitor and asked him, what do you do? And he said, you know, we put we're putting a man on the moon. Right. So that end goal, I love that. I love that. Let me ask you this question. You have said and this kinda gets more to the heart of of leadership. You've said that solving a problem, you make sure that you're emotionally ready to execute the plan, that you're emotionally ready to execute the plan. Can you unpack that philosophy a little bit?

Yes. So, actually, I I tell people, we have here at Brinman, we have something that it's called Basecamp. So that is something that it's fantastic for every new employee. We have, all day one day that we meet, within the first quarter, and we present everything about the company, the culture, what drives us. But we have always a chance to have a q and a with the new employees and there's always some kind of a question that comes out of that and it's like, you know, like an advice. And I always tell, sir, I I have a few and I I rotate them, but this is one that always goes is never quit on a bad day. Right? Don't quit on a bad day. And it's not necessarily don't quit your job. It's don't quit anything that you're working on the day that doesn't go the way that you think is is supposed to be going. And believe me, that advice, I have to remind myself that every so often because days are hard. There are some days that are harder than others. Right. Emotionally at work life, but also, you know, on your day to day, even conversations with with your teammates. Right? You there's days that things don't go as you want them. And being emotionally ready, it means that you have spent the time that you're calm and that you feel confident that you can have a conversation out of a place of knowledge and not emotion. Now emotion is always gonna be there and you have the ability to, and it's okay to show emotion. It's great actually to show, passion for what you are trying to, you know, like discuss or or have the conversation. But making sure that it's not only emotion, what is driven you to to have that. And so I tell everyone, don't quit on a bad day. Don't stop a project on a bad day. Take a pause and and, and do something that, you know, increases your endorphins. I tell, Lynn and I were talking the other day, Lynn Shaw, and I was on here today. I'm going to the gym earlier because I need more more of that for my next few hours. And so it's getting that right mental place, making sure that you have hobbies outside work, making sure that you have passions that allows you to put your brain somewhere else, that you have goals. I'm very goal driven. So Yes. We have to have something. Right? Whether today this morning, my my husband and I were talking about something and I was like, yeah. When I climbed Kalimanjaro, he's like, yeah. When you climbed Kalimanjaro. It's you know, it's those things that, you know, get you to to be emotionally ready for the conversations that are difficult. That you don't have everything, you know, all your thoughts are not in that that that place.

Right. That is so good. I love what you just said because sometimes, you know, having having that awareness of kinda where you are in that space because sometimes, like, going to the gym or doing something different, Sam, can unlock things and and and possibilities, can unlock even answers to some of the challenges that you're trying to solve. Right? And so or taking a a walk around the the building or, you know but don't quit.

Don't quit. A bad day. But also know that that that it's okay to cancel a meeting. Like it's okay to say, you know what? It's not the right timing. It's not good for you or for me to meet right now. It's okay to do that. And it's actually it's actually better for a business decision. Not every I always tell my everyone in my team, not every email requires a response. What I mean with that is that sometimes your first is like, let me let me respond that. And of course every email requires a response, but not every email requires a response when the other person needs it. It it it there's a balance. You have to make sure you you you're in the right place to even answer an email.

And it's so good.

That that you learn as you go.

Yeah. It's so good. So good. Well, I'm gonna ask you. You oh, goodness gracious. There's so much to you, Sam. Seriously, you're a triathlete. You're an endurance cyclist. How has that discipline influenced how you approach business challenges?

So you gotta think that I was raised in a place I never had grass. I I always joke with everyone because and and, like, everyone who knows me from Piedra Negras, like, I never like, grass wasn't even, like, something that, like, that in my house we had. So that means that I never had access to sports. That means that we never had bikes or like a school that had, you know, programs for volleyball or whatever. Like, nothing. Like, so I was always, like, wanna be an athlete, but I was, like, I don't have any and then when I go to Monterey, which they have mountains and stuff and cycling and this, I don't have the money to do any of that. And I had scholarships and I had a job. But I always look I would always, you know, be at the at the bus waiting for my boss or the metro or whatever to go to work. And I would see people with their bikes and stuff. And I was like, one day, one day, one day, one day. And so eventually, when I'm like, okay. This is my time. I get in triathlons. And this is a funny story though because I signed to one to the Chicago triathlon. And I back then, my husband also at Clayco, he had an office, completely opposite of the building and I go and I said, so I just joined the Chicago triathlon and he said, well, that's great, but you don't know how to swim. And I said, I know, but we're I'm gonna figure it out. And so we went to the YMCA that night, and and he knows how to swim. And he tries to teach me, and he's very supportive. But that day, he says, Sam, maybe triathlons, it's not your thing. From all the things, probably this is not the one. But that I was like, absolutely, I'm gonna do triathlon.

I'm gonna do it.

I got very obsessed with triathlons. I joined a team. I hired a coach, and I did the Chicago triathlon back then. And since then I've done a lot of triathlons. I've stayed to the Olympic distance. One day, I'm gonna be doing the half the half Ironman and a full Ironman. But, that helped me to realize that there's nothing I can't do if I don't, you know, the I all I need to do is train, make sure that I have the right mentors, the right people around me, and invest.

I bet you I bet you Nathan was, pretty, impressed with you that you were able to do that.

Right? He was because, yeah, the first time I went swimming at the y, like, the coordination wasn't there. So, yeah, when I did the Chicago triathlon and it's almost, you know, it's more than a mile swimming. Yes, probably like a mile and a half swimming. He was like, he did that, and, from a place of not knowing how to swim whatsoever. But then I got more so in the endurance, I did a a century ride with with with two of my with my my husband and a good very good friend of mine. And what I learned there is to make sure you have the right people because, they kept like, in those long distances is the people that surround you, the ones who are gonna make sure that you accomplish some things that you can't do by yourself. Like, they would push me in some of the hills, the three of us Viking. You know, they were stronger than me, so they were able to push. Some of them were, mentally in a better spot in certain parts of the race, and they would say, you got this. And even when I was mad and some parts of the race was I'm very math driven. And I was like, you know, if we continue going on this speed and doing this, we're gonna you know? So I I'm always looking at the next ten steps, and there's people who are like, but look at look at where we are right now. We're doing good. And so it's always good to have those teams. Endurance makes you that that, you know, you can do I don't have marathons and stuff like that. So it's, you know, it's just one one step at a time.

Between you and, between you and Nathan, I know Landon's gonna just grow up being a really resilient little guy and, who knows? I know you guys will, and I know you guys love skiing. Yes. I know you. And and Landon was pretty good at it, wasn't he?

Right. So now he goes to ski school every time we go to him, to Cannon Valley. Anytime we go to, Hart City or to Telluride or anywhere, like he will, he will

And he's four and a half.

I was thinking. Yeah. If we go to Deer Valley, he he gets on it and he has no fear. No fear.

Yeah. That's so awesome. Well, we need to wrap up here. Although I could just talk to you for hours and hours and hours. Yeah, I really want to encourage our listeners, so go follow Sam on LinkedIn. She she I always love reading your articles. You put a lot of articles out there, lots of thought leadership, Sam. And so I'm hoping that our leaders will go and follow you, but I need to ask you, this is called something extra. You know, what do you believe is this something extra that every great leader needs?

So I think what I'm gonna say is a little bit counterintuitive, but it's gonna make sense. And I was thinking about this. It's disloyalty to what make you successful. Now I'm not talking about what you know, it's it's part of your DNA and your culture and your beliefs. Mhmm. But it's that ability to look back and say, from everything I believe, from everything that I have learned, what are the things that I have to unlearn? What are the things that I have to challenge myself to think that maybe it's time to change? And what are the outcomes out of that? Is it is it the way that I lead? Is it gonna be better? Is it the way that I, go about a decision? For me, it was and I wrote about this when my brother passed, a year and a half ago. He had epilepsy. And when when he died, you know, I start questioning a lot of the things that I thought that were, you know, part of life. And I start questioning, why do I think what I think? Is this something that was product of what? And doing that has obviously passed into my job, what I do every day, how I lead teams, how I hire, how I think about new processes and teams and say, do I know? Am I trying to learn, or am I trying to make sure that I, you know, question everything? What I mean with that is that sometimes, you know, we think that adding and adding and learning and learning is the way to go. And the more I go about life is, like, maybe it's not about adding, and maybe it's about making sure that we question what we already know, and we give for new thoughts.

I love that. I've got a dear friend and mentor, Sherry Botchowder, that was the CEO for Popeyes. And she always she encourages you, don't try and take in more information. Just sit with what you already know. And I I do think in this world, I do think the the information overload, right, Sam, can be, I don't know, can cause some anxiety sometimes.

Well, because because there's so much. Right? You're trying to learn about technology and people, and you're trying to learn about culture, and you're trying to learn about the economics and you're trying to learn about and and learn and learn and learn and learn. And Mhmm. Sometimes you're trying to learn because you think of something else and you're like, well, that's the next thing. And Mhmm. The more I've been finding time to kinda cut my thoughts and say, why am I thinking this? What makes me think this? It gives me the ability to challenge myself, and challenge everything. And it it is not even about what other people are saying. It's what I'm saying and what I'm gonna stand up in from some in front of someone. I I truly believe what I'm saying because it's the right thing. So it's a different approach.

I love that.

I hope that makes sense.

That's different. That's different. I've not had anybody say that, so that's wonderful. I love it. Well, Sam, I knew this was gonna be fun. I knew it was gonna be fun, and I've just had a a wonderful time with you. And I am so grateful for your leadership. I'm grateful that you landed in Saint Louis because you make Saint Louis better, and we didn't even talk about, the the Taste of Chefs for the March of Dimes. You raised twice the money that they were hoping to raise.

Three times. We raised three times.

Three times the money that they were hoping to raise, and so you're just, you're on your right line more than community. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. You are a huge support.

Thank you for listening to today's show. Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production. Copyright Technology Partners Inc two thousand and nineteen. For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit tpi dot co slash podcast. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you listen.